Where else is it hiding?

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cojetoto
Posts: 54
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:25 pm

Re: Where else is it hiding?

Postby cojetoto » Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:13 pm

Hi Vivien,
Most of the time you are not really looking. You are only write down your thoughts.
I really don't know what to look for then. For example help me with this question:
If there is no entity with a need, then why would future need to be changed?
What for? And more importantly, for who?

And this is not an intellectual question.
What do I look here and now for, to answer this? I look into this moment and see experiences and thoughts. Just that. This is very simple. I notice that yes any need for change is driven by imagined future in thought. So I wrote
Oh yes, the future is imagined only in thought and then there is a believe in "me" wanting something different to what is now. There must be "me" with this desire.
What do I look for here to see really? I see this moment and I see there are sensations and then thoughts. You are asking me for something and I don't know what. I'm doing this again and again. I just see the experiences here in the body, sight and sounds.. and thoughts appearing. I see how the stories in thoughts are driving need or aversion and that is related to bodily sensations. I see that 'me' is only in those thoughts. Is this intellectual? How else I should look?
It doesn’t matter how much intellectual understanding you have, if you still FEEL to be a separate self in your everyday life. The one thinking, doing, deciding, feeling, suffering, and hoping a better life for himself in the future.
Well I understand this, it's not like I'm doing this intentionally.
Most of your replies in your last post was also just intellectual.
:(
You have to accept that your intellect is the WORST tool ever for seeing things as they are.
Yees, but how? I really believe I understand this is necessary, but apparently I'm wrong. But I do not know how to accept it more, other than just trying again and again with your help and questions.

I'm also continuing with the exercise, every 10m I interrupt my work and for a minute I try to look here and now. What is going on - what sensations and thoughts are appearing. I think it's helping quite a lot to notice thoughts and notice just this moment, here and now.

Peter

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Vivien
Posts: 7066
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:07 am
Location: Australia

Re: Where else is it hiding?

Postby Vivien » Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:06 am

Hi Peter,
V: If there is no entity with a need, then why would future need to be changed?
What for? And more importantly, for who?
And this is not an intellectual question.
P: What do I look here and now for, to answer this? I look into this moment and see experiences and thoughts. Just that. This is very simple. I notice that yes any need for change is driven by imagined future in thought.
It’s one thing to see that in the moment there is experience and thoughts. And it’s another one to really let this sink in.

Can you really see the implications of this?

Or, when it’s seen that there is experience + thoughts then can you see that it’s in stark contrast with your beliefs?
That nothing you ever believed about yourself is simply not true?

So the reason for the repeated looking is to discover that our whole perception and belief about the world, others and ourselves is simply false.

So when the self is seen through there is a change in perception with the dropping of the belief in a self. And these have emotional consequences. But if there is no emotional reaction to this then it’s not really seen.

OK, you look and see, but you still not believe your own eyes! Although you see that there is experience + thought, the penny still hasn’t dropped, that “OH, shit! There is really no self at all and it has never been! Everything I ever believed about myself, others and the world or life is simply not true!”
V: Oh yes, the future is imagined only in thought and then there is a believe in "me" wanting something different to what is now. There must be "me" with this desire.
P: What do I look for here to see really? I see this moment and I see there are sensations and then thoughts. You are asking me for something and I don't know what.
Every time when a thought with desire comes up, in that very moment it is believed that there is a me who has that particular desire. In that very moment the self isn’t seen to be an illusion.

So it’s not just about seeing that there is only experience + thought, but about a deep discovery that there is no self here in any shape of form. It’s not here. And never been. It’s always just been imagined. There is really no thinker, no doer, no controller. The body is literally empty of a self. The experience is literally empty of an I, an observer, an experiencer. There is really no separation. And there has never been. There is literally nothing standing apart from experience having it, and wanting it to be different.

If you can really see this, then there are implications.

I really want to help you, but I don’t know how. Since I can only point, but I cannot look and see instead of you. Seeing is something that only you can make happen.

Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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cojetoto
Posts: 54
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:25 pm

Re: Where else is it hiding?

Postby cojetoto » Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:30 pm

Hi Vivien,

thank you. I'm continuing with trying to recognize and catch thoughts as they are appearing and that seems improving. I feel that will help me to see.

Peter

User avatar
Vivien
Posts: 7066
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:07 am
Location: Australia

Re: Where else is it hiding?

Postby Vivien » Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:18 am

All right. Please keep me updated.
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/


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