Eyes wide open

Welcome to the main forum. When you are ready to start a conversation, register and once your application is processed a guide will come to talk to you.
This is one-on-one style forum, one thread per green member.
User avatar
Vivien
Posts: 7037
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:07 am
Location: Australia

Re: Eyes wide open

Postby Vivien » Fri Oct 23, 2020 7:13 am

Hi Janet,

You did a nice investigation.

Is there anything that does not happen automatically?

Is there anything that needs your doing? Or everything is just happening?

What do you do in order to be?

What do you do in order to see?
What do you do in order to hear?
What do you do in order to feel?
What do you do in order to taste and smell?

What do you do for thoughts to be?

What do you do in order for the body to be?


Please investigate each questions thoroughly many times throughout the day.
Let me know what you find.

Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

User avatar
Liam2
Posts: 55
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:42 pm

Re: Eyes wide open

Postby Liam2 » Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:07 pm

Thank you,

I will take some time with these..

Janet

User avatar
Liam2
Posts: 55
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:42 pm

Re: Eyes wide open

Postby Liam2 » Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:19 pm

Hello Vivian,

I am just letting you know I have not gone somewhere!
I am resting with all these questions, it seems that the truth be that things do appear to just happen, though it feels shallow in terms of this knowledge dropping in so to speak. It almost feels obvious, but there is a subtle disbelief? .. not totally clear on this, so just taking time
To look and question.

Thank you,
Connect soon enough..

User avatar
Vivien
Posts: 7037
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:07 am
Location: Australia

Re: Eyes wide open

Postby Vivien » Sat Oct 31, 2020 12:08 am

Thank you for the update :)
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

User avatar
Liam2
Posts: 55
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:42 pm

Re: Eyes wide open

Postby Liam2 » Wed Nov 04, 2020 6:40 am

Is there anything that does not happen automatically?
Is there anything that needs your doing? Or everything is just happening?
For these two questions, I cannot answer with clarity despite my next responses...
What do you do in order to be?
There is nothing to be done, no doing, in being...
What do you do in order to see?
I don't do anything, there is only seeing..appearances
What do you do in order to hear?
'I' do nothing, sound appears ..arising, and fading, changing ...
What do you do in order to feel?
'I' don't do anything, feelings arise
What do you do in order to taste and smell?
They just happen, 'I' do nothing to make them, they appear..

What do you do for thoughts to be?
I don't do anything for thoughts to arise, they appear..they are just there..changing,

The ability to somehow have these things pernitrate is frustrating, Then I ask, if there is no doing and things happen as they unfold there is nothing to do, penitration of this knowing is not something that 'I' do..this feels a bit insane making...

If you see what I am pointing at..? again, this knowing and seeing/ yet not really

Thank You,
Janet






What do you do in order for the body to be?

User avatar
Vivien
Posts: 7037
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:07 am
Location: Australia

Re: Eyes wide open

Postby Vivien » Wed Nov 04, 2020 7:12 am

Hi Janet,
The ability to somehow have these things pernitrate is frustrating, Then I ask, if there is no doing and things happen as they unfold there is nothing to do, penitration of this knowing is not something that 'I' do..this feels a bit insane making...
But where is this I that doesn’t do this or that?

It’s not about that I don’t do things, since I have no control.
Rather it’s about discovering that there is no I in any shape or form, no controller whatsoever, who would have or don’t have control over things.
Can you see the difference?

There is no control is there is no-one to control. The controller is missing from the picture. It’s just a myth.

What is the difference between doing and happening?

Is the separate self doing anything in life?
Or is the separate self also given? As an idea? Or as an entity?

Is it possible that everything (with no exception) is just happening?

Is there a manager / controller of life? Or everything is happening unmanaged, just as rain is happening unmanaged?

Is there an I reading or reading is happening?
Is there an entity called Janet sitting or sitting is happening?
Is there a me/person/individual seeing or seeing is happening?

Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

User avatar
Liam2
Posts: 55
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:42 pm

Re: Eyes wide open

Postby Liam2 » Wed Nov 04, 2020 6:47 pm

t’s not about that I don’t do things, since I have no control.
Rather it’s about discovering that there is no I in any shape or form, no controller whatsoever, who would have or don’t have control over things.
Can you see the difference.
Yes, I see the difference, The questions related to " what do 'I' Do to hear, see, ext, so The movement to look for a doer happens, and of course this cannot be found. That being said , I believe what is being pointed at is understood. That there is no thing, that is directive, directly orchestrating things happening, that being a person, controller, a God ext.
There is no control is there is no-one to control. The controller is missing from the picture. It’s just a myth.
Yes.
What is the difference between doing and happening?
Doing, implies a Doer, a subject, happening does not.
Is the separate self doing anything in life?
Is there a self separate from life? At this point it feels like the self is defined by life, no life, no self, they are not separate. ( where is the division then?) hmmm
Or is the separate self also given? As an idea? Or as an entity?
Yes its probable
Is it possible that everything (with no exception) is just happening?
Yes it is probable
Is there a manager / controller of life? Or everything is happening unmanaged, just as rain is happening unmanaged?
Yes it is probable everything is just happening unmanaged.
Is there an I reading or reading is happening?
Is there an entity called Janet sitting or sitting is happening?
Is there a me/person/individual seeing or seeing is happening?
Again, the questions leads to the looking for a Subject, there is no Subject doing, no-one to be found . here now...

This momentary clarity does not seem to pernitrate to a clear seeing of no Subject.
consistently understood.

What is this desire to know....I see its just happening too, but I think it is tripping me up and creating The "I" that cannot be observed only when attention is so precisely attentative and void of any thought.
There is a experience of felling trapped in a cycle..

Hope this all makes some sense..or has enough clarity, there really seems to be the experience of being stuck that struggles not to be taken as the personal..

Janet

User avatar
Vivien
Posts: 7037
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:07 am
Location: Australia

Re: Eyes wide open

Postby Vivien » Thu Nov 05, 2020 4:21 am

Hi Janet,
Is there a self separate from life? At this point it feels like the self is defined by life, no life, no self, they are not separate. ( where is the division then?) hmmm
Exactly. So when there is a seeming I, isn’t that just life appearing as an apparent I in that moment?
V: Or is the separate self also given? As an idea? Or as an entity?
J: Yes its probable
Dig deeper here. Go beyond ‘probable’ and actually look and see if it is true or not.
Or is the separate self also given? As an idea? Or as an entity?
V: Is there a manager / controller of life? Or everything is happening unmanaged, just as rain is happening unmanaged?
J: Yes it is probable everything is just happening unmanaged.
Please go beyond guessing. Look until you can clearly say ‘yes’ or ‘no’.

Is there a manager / controller of life? Or everything is happening unmanaged, just as rain is happening unmanaged?
Is there a manager or not? Yes or no?
There is a experience of felling trapped in a cycle..
What is the experience of ‘feeling trapped in a cycle’?
Is this actually an experience of a feeling? Or is this just a thought story believed and taken for granted?


Look carefully. It’s impossible to experience of feeling trapped in a cycle.
There is no experience of being trapped.
There is no experience of a cycle.
Trapped and cycle are just stories.
And more importantly there is no-one there to be trapped.
But check it for yourself.
Is there anyone here being trapped in anything?
experience of being stuck
There is no experience of being stuck, that’s not possible.
‘Being stuck’ is not an experience. It cannot be seen, heard, tasted, smelled or felt. It can only ever be imagined or thought of. That’s all. That’s all there is to ‘being stuck’.

And who would be stuck?
A thought would be stuck?
Maybe a sensation would be stuck?
A sound?
Taste or a smell?

Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

User avatar
Liam2
Posts: 55
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:42 pm

Re: Eyes wide open

Postby Liam2 » Thu Nov 05, 2020 4:53 am

Thank you, Vivian
I will need some time with this as it appears there is a deeper examination required.
I will be in touch

Thank you very much..

User avatar
Liam2
Posts: 55
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:42 pm

Re: Eyes wide open

Postby Liam2 » Thu Nov 12, 2020 8:28 am

Hello Vivian,

sorry for the delay, sometimes time is very necessary
So when there is a seeming I, isn’t that just life appearing as an apparent I in that moment?
Yes, the I is another appearance as with all other appearances given a label and designation. When looking at this I fell into examining, or seeing the relativity of things, how the mind finds definition through the relativity to other things. Labels creating labels.
Is there a manager / controller of life? Or everything is happening unmanaged, just as rain is happening unmanaged? Is there a manager or not? Yes or no?
There appears to be no manager or controller in life. beyond the non appearance of one in the moment, the idea of a manager or controller is an assumption/ concept of my mind
What is the experience of ‘feeling trapped in a cycle’?
Is this actually an experience of a feeling? Or is this just a thought story believed and taken for granted?
This is most definitely a story...

Is there anyone here being trapped in anything?
There is absolutely no-one being trapped in any way, there is no-one , the concept is, just that, a concept, pulled from an unexamined space
And who would be stuck?
A thought would be stuck?
Maybe a sensation would be stuck?
A sound?
Taste or a smell?
Stuck is a concept, a thought appearing from the experience of a strong sensation, with a story around it. This sensation is a sensation with a label.

Janet

User avatar
Vivien
Posts: 7037
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:07 am
Location: Australia

Re: Eyes wide open

Postby Vivien » Thu Nov 12, 2020 10:50 am

Hi Janet,

You did a nice investigation :)

Please sit for some time and just notice how everything is just happening effortlessly.

Look around.
What is being done for colors and shapes to be? Is there anything be done for colors and shapes to be, or they are just there effortlessly?

Listen to the sounds.
What is being done exactly for the sounds to be?
And when the attention is on a sound, what is being done to know the sound? Is there any doing? Or it’s just known effortlessly?


Now shift the focus on FEELING the body.
What is being done exactly for the body to be?
Is there any effort in being?
Or the body just IS, effortlessly?


Focus on the sensations of the hands.
What is being done for the sensations to be?
Aren’t the sensations happens effortlessly?


Look at the hands.
What is being done exactly for the image of the hand to be, to exist?
Is there a you making the image of the hands happen?
Is there any effort in seeing?


Now notice thoughts.
What is being done for thoughts to be?
Is there any effort for thoughts to appear? Or they just appear effortlessly?
What is not happening effortlessly and needs your doing?


Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

User avatar
Liam2
Posts: 55
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:42 pm

Re: Eyes wide open

Postby Liam2 » Thu Nov 12, 2020 4:40 pm

Thank you Vivian,

I will take my time with these..
just relax into them and I will get back to you

Janet

User avatar
Vivien
Posts: 7037
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:07 am
Location: Australia

Re: Eyes wide open

Postby Vivien » Thu Nov 12, 2020 11:21 pm

All right :)
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

User avatar
Liam2
Posts: 55
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:42 pm

Re: Eyes wide open

Postby Liam2 » Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:20 am

Hello Vivian :), just a check-in , I am still resting with the last set of questions, I feel that in reality there are moments I can clearly answer the questions with some clarity, however I also would like to stay with them longer as it feels as thought the obvious needs to sink in, doing these questions has allowed me to put things I have learned cognitively or partially in the past together at times. I would like to savor these ones for a short time more.

Thank you
Janet

User avatar
Vivien
Posts: 7037
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:07 am
Location: Australia

Re: Eyes wide open

Postby Vivien » Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:22 am

All right :) write me when you feel ready.
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/


Return to “THE GATE”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 3 guests