This is not long, we just hardly started the inquiry. We are only on the second page. A long thread starts above 20 pages.Sorry Vivien, does it normally taking this long? I feel like you're giving up your time and I'm just not getting it.
As long as you are sincere and motivated to look, I’m here with you to help. It doesn’t matter how long it takes. It takes as long as it takes.
You see, you have an intellectual knowledge about awakening, learned from others, like the wave metaphor. Also, you’ve probably heard a lot about consciousness and awareness with the notion that things appearing in them. But the thing is that these are just metaphors, just words.I don't really understand this question. Where else would they appear? Would they appear AS consciousness? Articulating it? Like the waves in the ocean metaphor?
I’ve encountered many seekers who adopted these metaphors as beliefs – without realizing that these are just learned ideas for others. And more often than not, they identify with these ideas, with the conclusion that “I am awareness” or that “I am consciousness”.
But these all just beliefs. Just thoughts. Not an experience.
You believe that thoughts appear somewhere, that thoughts have a location, and thus you’ve made a logical conclusion that it must be consciousness.Where else would they appear? Would they appear AS consciousness?
But all of these are just intellectual speculations. These are coming from thinking, and not from looking at experience directly.
The information that things appear in consciousness come from a thought.I don’t know where the information comes from, it just appears. I’ve no idea how the experience is formed by the brain, all I know is that thoughts are experienced.
A thought is making this claim.
This is not something you directly experience, rather this is what you BELIEVE and THINK.
Please take my questions VERY LITERALLY.V: Can you observe the process as thoughts appear IN a consciousness?C: gain, I’m not sure what you’re asking. All I can say is that they pop up unprompted, seemingly out of nowhere.
This investigation is very down to earth.
Please take a cup into your hands.
Go to the tap, and fill it with water.
Now, look at the cup filled with water.
As you look at it, you can clearly SEE without any doubt, that the water is INSIDE a cup.
You can SEE both the water and the cup. Right?
But is this true with thoughts and consciousness?
You believe (think) that thoughts appear IN a consciousness. And I am asking if you can LITERALLY OBSERVE thoughts appearing in a consciousness, just as you can see the water being inside the cup?
I’m asking if you can literally SEE an empty consciousness (just as your empty cup) and then you can literally observe that a thought appearing INSIDE this consciousness (just as water appears in the cup when you fill it form the tap)?
The question was: “what is the EXPERIENCE of CONSCIOUSNESS here now?”V: What is the experience of consciousness here now?C: The usual: thinking what to write; TV screen; keyboard; desk; sensations around the body; sounds outside; wind and cars; the heat in the air; tiredness; food bulking my stomach.
And you are saying that the TV screen is consciousness, that sounds are consciousness, that cars are consciousness, that heat is consciousness. But what makes you think this?
Is the TV screen the experience of consciousness, or the TV screen is the experience of a TV screen?
Is the keyboard the experience of consciousness, or the keyboard is the experience a keyboard?
Is the desk the experience of consciousness, or the desk is the experience a desk?
Is the wind the experience of consciousness, or wind is the experience of wind?
What makes you think that the experience of tiredness is the experience of consciousness?
What makes you think that ‘food bulking in your stomach’ is the experience of consciousness and not the experience of food in the stomach?
Thoughts are behind your eyes? How do you know that?V: And where is the location of this illusionary central controller?C: t doesn’t have an exact location, it seems to be somewhere behind my eyes, like other thoughts.
Is this what experience shows, or rather it’s just something you’ve learned in school?
Do you believe that there is a location where thoughts appear?
Can you literally find thoughts behind the eyes, just as you can find water in the cup?