Ready!

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YGirl
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Re: Ready!

Postby YGirl » Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:15 pm

No more glimpses in the last day or so. :-(
Being human is a concept, what if you simply drop it? Just for a moment.
Is there really a difference between you and a dog?
Yes, I see it is a concept. A categorisation by the mind of some of the world that is seen. I think I was struggling for words. Looking at my cat (my closest non-human subject for observation!) I sense that there is no difference to the 'life', just different things being experienced - the experiencing 'I' have of this body, these thoughts, these actions/routine are likely different to the experiencing the cat has of her body, mind, actions/routines - but who knows? She can't tell me. (I certainly think it's absurd to think that animals are entirely different from 'us' - it seems that most people somehow forget that we are animals too! :-) )
And who knows, maybe the differences between my experiencing and my cat's aren't any greater than between yours and mine.

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Jadzia
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Re: Ready!

Postby Jadzia » Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:13 pm

My closest animal is a dog, so that turned up, a cat is fine, too.

Let's have a deeper look.
When we say that human is a concept too, what do we mean?
We mean a whole bunch of ideas which start with: walking on two legs, how the body is build and going to philosphical or psychological or cultural ideas.
Since Jadzia and YGirl see a body which looks human in the mirror we could say: I am human.
But what if we are more than the body, more than mind, more than all the ideas we have how a human has to be?
We see what we call differences in form, one form is called human the other cat.
What if the cat is much more than her body?

So if you, for a moment, drop the idea of human body and all other ideas what is left?

Open up, drop the need for explantions and see what you find. :-)

Love ,
Jadzia

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YGirl
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Re: Ready!

Postby YGirl » Thu Oct 29, 2020 7:24 pm

When we say that human is a concept too, what do we mean?
We mean a whole bunch of ideas which start with: walking on two legs, how the body is build and going to philosphical or psychological or cultural ideas.
For me, I probably think first of genetics, but yes, also ideas about being capable of language, cultural stuff etc. In direct experience there is no human, no cat, just awaring.
So if you, for a moment, drop the idea of human body and all other ideas what is left?
Open up, drop the need for explanations and see what you find. :-)
I don't know if this is just a bunch of ideas, but with it comes spaciousness...
So, in the moment there is awaring and a sense of presence - I had assumed that the sense of presence was just made up of all the sensations, thoughts etc. and that we only think of it as 'sense of presence' because we can't explain how all those experiences come together to form a sense of being. Looking at me, and my cat, without ideas neither of us is aware of 'human' or 'cat'. The sense of being/presence/life seems to be universal to all animals, some kind of 'spark'. Then I had the notion that it's a bit like gravity - a kind of universal law that gives rise to something observable when the right conditions are in place - so for the law of gravity, if there is sufficient mass, we observe the force of gravity. And for life/aliveness, if the conidtions of a functioning mind/body/form thingy is here, then aliveness arises. It's a bit of a clunky explanation. It gives a sense of continuity of aliveness, connectedness, spaciousness, but I'm suspicious that it's all just another nice idea to explain something I don't understand.

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Jadzia
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Re: Ready!

Postby Jadzia » Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:43 pm

I am not overly good in numbers but we have over 90% the same genes as a mouse.......
but I'm suspicious that it's all just another nice idea to explain something I don't understand.
Yessss. Drop the idea. When ever an idea forms say >Hi and then drop it.

What happens if you do it?

Love,
Jadzia

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YGirl
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Re: Ready!

Postby YGirl » Fri Oct 30, 2020 3:55 pm

Drop the idea. When ever an idea forms say >Hi and then drop it.
What happens if you do it?
Nothing, I'm confused :-s
But what if we are more than the body, more than mind, more than all the ideas we have how a human has to be?
All that is here, if dropping ideas, is awaring of sensations and mental processes. I see that ideas about self, and how we 'have' to be, are restricting, but I don't understand what you mean by 'more than the body, more than mind' - so far I have been finding there is nothing but sensation, thoughts, emotions. An idea of self is adding something more and that is being stripped away, so I'm a bit confused about there being something more than what I can see here at the moment.

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Jadzia
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Re: Ready!

Postby Jadzia » Fri Oct 30, 2020 5:45 pm

Body, mind were examples for what is usually believed...
All that is here, if dropping ideas, is awaring of sensations and mental processes.
So there is awaring? Awareness? Is there a beginning and end to awareness? What is aware?

Love,
Jadzia

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YGirl
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Re: Ready!

Postby YGirl » Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:19 pm

So there is awaring? Awareness? Is there a beginning and end to awareness? What is aware?
I think my best answer is 'I don't know'. Does anybody really know? I've been examining what 'it' looks like, but I need to do more looking. So far...

I didn't use the word 'awareness' because you can't find a 'thing' that is awareness, so I used a verb. There is a process not a thing. Previously I was using 'awaring' to mean any seeing, hearing etc. including awaring of thoughts and emotions, or a combination of all of the sensory and thought happenings in any given moment. In the latter, it seems there is unconscious processing which often brings all of the sensory experience together into one moment of experiencing. Although, one can have attention/focus on one aspect of present experience, one particular part of seeing, hearing - say you are watching TV, focus is on seeing/hearing/processing of idea content while sensations of sitting fall into the background. Unless I have a lot of pain then focus is drawn there. So then I ask myself, what actually is attention? What happens when attention 'moves' to a particular thing? The thing that attention is on seems amplified relative to other sensory input. I think unconscious processes, the 'program', choose where awareness goes, and heightens that for further examination. Sometimes perhaps story is part of the input to what is 'chosen' to be the focus. Often we think we choose where we put our attention, but I've seen that this is not the case. Although there are thoughts sometimes that say 'I will focus on my work' they don't really correspond to actual focus happening - sometimes it happens and we claim credit, and sometimes it doesn't and we beat our'selves' up for not focusing.

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Jadzia
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Re: Ready!

Postby Jadzia » Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:39 pm

One can say awareness, or God or whatever but all are just concepts. Now and then we want to use words but as you already know it is always a bit tricky.

Not knowing can be a comfortable place. :-)
We are big in explaining and it is quite a habit. If one can explain something we assume we understand it, if we understand something we assume we can feel a bit safer and imagine security and the ability to control life or outcomes.

Watch this habit and and see how it feeds the feeling of separateness.
Share what you find.

Love
Jadzia

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YGirl
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Re: Ready!

Postby YGirl » Sun Nov 01, 2020 7:33 pm

Thanks Jadzia :-)
We are big in explaining and it is quite a habit...
Watch this habit and and see how it feeds the feeling of separateness.
Yes, today it was very clear that there is only awaring, and anything else is just thoughts, ideas... Felt spacious and like I had lots of perspective on the 'selfing' thoughts and was in the flow of awaring, with glimpses of separation falling away. Words are tricky here, yes. As soon as thoughts started to label/describe, an idea was formed, and then suddenly I was looking at the idea rather than the experience. And then a moment later I wasn't even looking at the idea, just assuming the idea to be true. Looking at the idea is not looking at the experience. Remembering the idea is not looking at the experience happening now. Assuming the truth of the earlier experience is not looking at what is happening now. And even the thought 'that's just a thought' is just an idea - thoughts catch one in a web.

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Jadzia
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Re: Ready!

Postby Jadzia » Sun Nov 01, 2020 7:44 pm

True.
The lesson to learn here is to let go and don't try to create this kind of moments.
They come and go. Enjoy them. All this will deepen over the time, but still come and go. This is life. :-)

We see the world as we learned to see it and this literally means everything. Once we question each and every belief, of which many are called knowing, learned stuff, everything becomes clearer.

For the next days simply observe the flow of life. All movement. Yours, the rustling of the leaves, the movement of a dog, bike and so on.
Share what you find.

Love,
Jadzia

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YGirl
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Re: Ready!

Postby YGirl » Tue Nov 03, 2020 2:53 pm

For the next days simply observe the flow of life. All movement. Yours, the rustling of the leaves, the movement of a dog, bike and so on.
Share what you find.
Yesterday, for some time, I was firmly in the 'no-self' perspective. Everything was ok, just as it should be. There was neither separation, nor no-separation, and that was ok too. I'm very tired right now, but will see how things unfold over the rest of the day.

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Jadzia
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Re: Ready!

Postby Jadzia » Tue Nov 03, 2020 3:44 pm

Sounds wonderful! :-)

Love,
Jadzia

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YGirl
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Re: Ready!

Postby YGirl » Wed Nov 04, 2020 7:40 pm

Clarity comes... and goes. I feel like 'I' am almost 'there' though...

I notice now that pain doesn't make me feel as though 'I' am 'inside' the body, but fatigue and nausea and light-headedness are all sensations that make one feel, physically, disconnected from the world and for me reduce the sense of everything being one movement... and make me feel like a thing/me inside the body. It's likely I'm falling for story and not seeing story for what it is in this context. Although, fatigue does change perception and cognitive function, so maybe it does make things hazy. If only I didn't have a story of needing to work and function like an adult, I could just go to sleep when I feel like it! LoL.

The other stories that I need to look at a bit more is my irritation with other people - it increases the feeling of separation and coincides with stonger 'I-thoughts'. But looking back over the last few months, I think this has definitely loosened a bit. More to fall away here. Lots of habit. And learning that this is ok too - it's something that is happening, no-one is 'doing' it, it's part of the program at the moment.

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Jadzia
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Re: Ready!

Postby Jadzia » Wed Nov 04, 2020 8:10 pm

Fatigue and nausea are tough cookies to eat, so to speak. They weaken the system and thoughts can feel much stronger than at other times. Here the "Hey, I really don't have to believe everything thoughts tell." comes in handy.

It is beautiful that you notice which situations lead to "stronger" thoughts! A
What many of us learned is getting habitually impatient with ourselves in such moments. Thoughts like " I shouldn't react to this." or "Don't I know better" or "I shouldn't judge, one doesn't or?" aren't helpful at all. an
Why not try to allow all thoughts, daft one, judgemental ones and brilliant ones alike. No judgement of any of the thoughts appearing. They come and go any way, why adding extra weight? It is about allowing, simply allowing the nastiest, tiniest, most stupid, most unfair thoughts, no need to fall in love with them or like them, but simply not disliking them.
This might be more effective than telling onself No one is doing it, offering a change in habit is very valuable.

Try that and share what you find.

Love,
Jadzia

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YGirl
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Re: Ready!

Postby YGirl » Thu Nov 05, 2020 7:48 pm

"Hey, I really don't have to believe everything thoughts tell."
Yes - I'm finding this and being non-judgemental makes things lighter/easier - but more practice needed!

It's interesting that when the stories are cycling, and are tied in with emotions, there just doesn't seem to be any space to notice anything outside the story - only later does one look back and gain a bit of perspective. Trying not to be judgemental about getting lost in such stories. Seeing if I can enjoy watching some of the stories instead of being judgemental - like entertainment :-) Seeing if I can take 'my self' less seriously.

There are so many layers of story, that having a strong sense of clarity is still rare, but I think I don't mind as much - the fact that stories run, and sometimes get believed for a while, is kind of ok. Though at other times, it's frustrating.


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