Ready!

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Jadzia
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Re: Ready!

Postby Jadzia » Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:39 pm

I am glad you are recovering. :-)
I think I need to spend some more time sitting/being with this, as the assumption is deeply held, and almost 'felt' - it needs a bit more 'breaking down'.
It always goes back to thought babble. Investigate how this idea is built up, mantained and how exactly the "almost felt" works.
Look at this as if it is the most interesting thing to investigate since a long time, enjoy the brilliance of it.
Share what you find.

Love,
Jadzia

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YGirl
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Re: Ready!

Postby YGirl » Mon Oct 19, 2020 6:42 pm

Almost wasn't able to write! Found a bird video and my cat was completely transfixed - I was just enjoying watching her.
Investigate how this idea is built up, mantained and how exactly the "almost felt" works.
It's less solid now, so harder to look at. I think the 'almost felt' is a subtle emotion connected to the familiarity of the idea.

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Jadzia
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Re: Ready!

Postby Jadzia » Mon Oct 19, 2020 6:52 pm

I think the 'almost felt' is a subtle emotion connected to the familiarity of the idea.
This is a good one!
Familiarity!
There are things where the "It's been always like that" happens, stuff which has never been questioned. They are so familiar, normal that they almost slip under the radar.
Question everything for half an hour. Whenever something turns up, check if it is merely an assumption or is based on something. Subtle emotion doesn't count as base.
Like:
" I am hungry" - how is it known, is it an assumption? How does hungry work, show itself?
"A car" How is it known it is a car? What makes a car a car? What does the word mean? Does the thingy know it is car?
Play around with questions, catch each belief and assumption and memory and what ever.
Ok.

Love,
Jadzia

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YGirl
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Re: Ready!

Postby YGirl » Wed Oct 21, 2020 6:38 pm

Question everything for half an hour. Whenever something turns up, check if it is merely an assumption or is based on something.
I think I need to do a bit more on this, but what strikes me so far...
stuff which has never been questioned. They are so familiar, normal that they almost slip under the radar.
Everything is happening very quickly. Lots of seeing, hearing.
Looking around in my kitchen for example, making toast and tea... The things that are seen are separated out and labelled, but that is too fast to see. There's a sense that I don't really look at any of the things - seeing happens and all of the items are very familiar - every cup, plate, the kettle etc. is very familiar. As I'm moving around doing tasks (ok tasks happening) it is almost as if one is seeing the remembered/recognised image of the things rather than experiencing the seeing properly. Similarly with the tasks themselves. For example, I get the margarine out of the fridge - I don't really 'see' the fridge or properly see the tub of margarine or look for it - reaching to where it is happens, the tub is recognised - the weight, colour, size is all as expected, and almost replaced by the remembered/expected experience of seeing it. It's hard to describe what I mean here. I think it's the same comfortable, familiar feeling though - just assuming what everything is - that I experienced with the idea of the witness. It's not a big deal when you are just assuming that thingy there is a cup, as knowing it is a cup gets confirmed right away, for example, by being able to actually use it as a cup (although 'cup' is just a concept about something that can be used in a certain way and looks a certain way). But if you are assuming something that was never verified, then things get problematic.

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Jadzia
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Re: Ready!

Postby Jadzia » Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:28 pm

So it is a bit like a blur and we see what we expect to see, feel what we expect to feel and so on.
A world build up from memory and expectation, past and future, this is not exactly living in the moment, eh?
And yes, for each and everything there is a description or concept. If the concept/description/idea of something points to something which senses can get, ok, but some of these point to another concept like the concept of a witness and then it gets fishy.

So same here, the important things to look out are the glitches, when stuff doesn't fit. Actually that happens quite often but we are used to not noticing or pushing the info away almost in lightspeed.
Have a little break and look at this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJG698U2Mvo
Have a look at this and count. :-)

Take all this light heartedly and just enjoy how the story, the world is built up.

Love,
Jadzia

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YGirl
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Re: Ready!

Postby YGirl » Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:37 pm

Have a little break and look at this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJG698U2Mvo
Have a look at this and count. :-)
Nice. I saw the gorilla, but not until it reached the middle of the screen - but I was sort of primed to expect something odd - lost count of the passes at that point.
Take all this light heartedly and just enjoy how the story, the world is built up.
It is kind of amazing everything that goes on in this human. One might feel more separate from everything else when one realises we don't 'see reality as it is', but on further reflection there's no such thing as seeing it as it truly is. Seeing is dependent on the seeing apparatus for starters and then it is a subjective experience - a human sees the world differently to a cat for example. The world is weird, for sure. And most of it is constructed in our brains. Like you say, fine when the 'construct' corresponds fairly closely to a sensed thing or the reality, but fishy when it's just a concept like 'witness'.

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Jadzia
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Re: Ready!

Postby Jadzia » Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:03 pm

Where are you with the witness right now?

Love,
Jadzia

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YGirl
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Re: Ready!

Postby YGirl » Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:31 pm

Where are you with the witness right now?
When looking closely, I'm pretty confident that the witness doesn't exist, but I think I need to spend a bit more time with this - some extra quiet time at the weekend - to allow it to sink in. I've also been thinking about what gating is, and what I'm expecting here, and want to explore a bit how 'belief' works - there can't be a 'self' that believes in self/witness/separation, and so that 'self' can't stop believing in them, so what happens with gating - a shift in thought patterns, or? I will try to spend a little time looking at how 'belief' is constructed / what it consists of... And how a belief gets integrated into everyday life.

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Jadzia
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Re: Ready!

Postby Jadzia » Fri Oct 23, 2020 3:36 pm

Sounds like well cut out investigations.

Just keep in mind, that self is a big part of the story, but in itself can't do anything, like forming a belief - there one much better looks at beliefs of societies, families one grew into. The self is pretty much like a character in a book, like a character it can't suddenly leave the book and have a life on its own, it is just a figment of a narrative.

Looking forward to what you find!

Love,
Jadz

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YGirl
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Re: Ready!

Postby YGirl » Sat Oct 24, 2020 3:46 pm

Indeed, the 'self' is one of the beliefs.
So far, here's what I think I've found...
Beliefs are ideas that are taken to be a true representation of reality - by which I mean other thoughts arise in accordance with them, maybe actions happen in accordance with them. They are in fact taken to be reality. Sometimes there is an emotional aspect - a comfortable, familiar feeling, as well as thoughts aligning, building on, inferring from the base belief. Often because the belief is assumed to be real it is never examined, questioned - often it is not thought directly, but is the hidden assumption underlying other thoughts and ideas. Beliefs can be 'correct' - as in a fairly accurate representation of something in reality, evidence-based and useful - the brain doesn't have to re assimilate all incoming information all the time. Beliefs can be 'incorrect' though - not based on any actual evidence. I can't find any beliefs thoughts/ideas 'I' have that aren't part of a prevailing social view - although a few opinions I have are counter to the 'accepted' norm (but probably those are conforming from a sort of 'non conformist' world view). The separate self is a belief in the same way. No evidence can be found, but the prevailing view is strong, and other thoughts and ideas have been built on it over the years.
In any case - all of this is thought/mental process.

In terms of gating, the self can't stop believing in the self because it is itself a belief (that sounds like a tongue twister!) - the 'self' doesn't 'do' anything. So is gating a breaking down of the house-of-cards of thoughts built on the belief in a separate self? Those thoughts then eventually stop arising?

In other news, in the DE-based exploration - I'm still finding it helpful to look at seeing, and that it doesn't stop. In seeing, the seen 'objects' aren't 'over there' and there isn't a thing 'here'. I'll keep checking.

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Jadzia
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Re: Ready!

Postby Jadzia » Sat Oct 24, 2020 5:35 pm

In terms of gating, the self can't stop believing in the self because it is itself a belief (that sounds like a tongue twister!) - the 'self' doesn't 'do' anything. So is gating a breaking down of the house-of-cards of thoughts built on the belief in a separate self? Those thoughts then eventually stop arising?
Self/I is insubstantial, it is a character in a story. The story tells a lot, like " I can stop believing that the self is ...bla bla, does...., initiate..... ."
It is more like a brain twister, because one can get to the point where beliefs drop and the house of cards collapses.
Words can mislead - so in the end it is what is felt to be true, what some call the knowing. In the end it is about jumping through the creak in the fabrication. It is less understanding via thinking than opening up for the seemingly impossible.
Don't look for definitions, look for what you feel, sense, experience in each moment.


Love,
Jadzia

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YGirl
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Re: Ready!

Postby YGirl » Sun Oct 25, 2020 6:57 pm

So, just been trying to feel in to what is today. To try to stop explaining.

One thing I saw today, was that the familiarity of this human being - these body sensations, certain repeating thoughts and stories, certain repeating happenings/actions - are what constituted a persisting sense of 'me'. It sounds kind of obvious, but it felt like a big deal. Will spend some time with this observation that familiarity doesn't = a 'me'. Thoughts? Suggestions?

Hope you've had a good weekend.

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Jadzia
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Re: Ready!

Postby Jadzia » Sun Oct 25, 2020 7:59 pm

One thing I saw today, was that the familiarity of this human being - these body sensations, certain repeating thoughts and stories, certain repeating happenings/actions - are what constituted a persisting sense of 'me'. It sounds kind of obvious, but it felt like a big deal.
This is a big deal!
Well done!

Try looking at the sense of self the way a kind loving mum would look at her child. Lovingly, kindly and embracing it. It can stay, nothing wrong with that but you know that it doesn't point to an entity, it just points to a story.
Then allow the freedom to be felt that all you found out so far brings. Observe when the feeling of me gets stronger, smile, and find out what exactly happened and then let go again. Mostly it is about looking in a friendly and patient way and important - relax and have fun.

Thanks, we had a lovely sunny autumn weekend.

Love,
Jadzia

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YGirl
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Re: Ready!

Postby YGirl » Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:43 pm

It's as though a light of, almost shocking, realisation flickers on every now and again. Every now and again I'm doing something (ignore the 'I' and 'doing', you know what I mean, LoL), and suddenly there is a recognition that this isn't actually a 'me' (the sense of me, the familiar feelings, thoughts...). It is not 'on' for long enough to fully feel into. As soon as a thought asks, for example, 'am I separate' the mind has already conjured up 'I' again, which is of course separate. If thoughts like that don't arise, the recognition remains a bit longer before I fall 'inside' the familiarity again and the story.

This isn't the same as the joyful non-separateness I felt in the other glimpses, but feels as though it could some how join up with it to form a coherent recognition at some point - if that makes sense. In these moments of recognition in the last few days, the focus is more towards the experience of 'being' this human, but not being a 'me'. It feels like more of an on or off, binary recognition. Whereas in other glimpses the focus was more towards the whole of the physical world. I sense that the two types of 'glimpses' are 2 sides of the same coin, but that they aren't quite 'together' yet.

We are into the things that are hard to describe in words again, but hopefully I've painted an accurate-enough picture!

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Jadzia
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Re: Ready!

Postby Jadzia » Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:14 pm

Accurate enough. :-)

Being human is a concept, what if you simply drop it? Just for a moment.
Is there really a difference between you and a dog?

Love,
Jadzia


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