Hi IVI, please come in and bring your self.

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Ilona
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Hi IVI, please come in and bring your self.

Postby Ilona » Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:26 am

Thanks for joining in.
Let's talk, do you exist?

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ivi
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Re: Hi IVI, please come in and bring your self.

Postby ivi » Fri Oct 07, 2011 10:30 am

Well, that has been troubling me.
A while back I managed to realize that what I thought was me was not a constant thing. I'm a nurse and I started thinking I give all these drugs to patients which changes their personalities so there must not be a self because it is so easily changed either with drugs, age, lobotomy, stroke, etc. So the self may not be just the neuronal DNA encoded responses as I kind of believed before. But then what's up with that? I mean where did I get the sense of I anyways if it doesn't exist. What is up with all these other things that can be attributed to "me"?
A while back I also had some hormonal issues and was all moody and what not, but I kind of stopped all those things because I realized this is not me so stop acting all moody- I said to myself "it's just your hormones so just ignore the urges to cry or be angry or whatever because it is not you it is your body trying to dictate you so that's not you." So again I kind of have myself dissociated from parts of myself. However, I still feel a self somewhere, somehow yet it all seems kind of not right.
So something exists, not sure what it is, not sure if it's supposed to.

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Re: Hi IVI, please come in and bring your self.

Postby Ilona » Fri Oct 07, 2011 3:48 pm

Thank you for the answer, ivi. It is great that you came in here to address this troubling queston. But before we start I really want to know what is it that you expect here. Just make a list as long and a honest as possible of all that you think, hope, expect liberation to be and do for you.

Let's see what you got.

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Re: Hi IVI, please come in and bring your self.

Postby ivi » Fri Oct 07, 2011 6:27 pm

Well I've heard that "liberation" makes you truly see the no self concept. Right now I just have the self is not what I thought it was.
Also, I'm generally afraid of changes even changes in the way I perceive things. So I guess I want to be free from that. And also I'm hoping this might take away some of the suffering in life.
I really don't know what I'm hoping for other than that.
I guess I just always thought I'm not getting the whole picture in life yet it was always just out of my reach and I want to see if this clears it up.

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Re: Hi IVI, please come in and bring your self.

Postby Ilona » Fri Oct 07, 2011 6:34 pm

thank you. THAT is a great intention behind this answer. you are very ready :)
Now let's see
"liberation" makes you truly see the no self concept
. yes, this is precisely that, but not what you think. it reveals a concep for what it is- a concept, idea, though.

so tell me now precisely, what are thoughts and feelings that are coming up when you hold this thought in the mind:

there is no separate entity 'me' at all in life. There is no thinker and there is no doer.
just write it all out.

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Re: Hi IVI, please come in and bring your self.

Postby ivi » Sun Oct 09, 2011 8:32 pm

Well it seems that this would not be possible because I'm having thoughts even as we speak. Also, I perceive myself doing things all the time. If that is truly happening or not is another discussion. And it's not as if someone else is thinking my thoughts right now or some one else moving my fingers to type. However, whenever I try to pin point the "me" it's never quite it. So does the fact that I can't describe the me or pin it down make it nonexistant? It seems that that would not be the case.
As far as feelings: well it makes me frustrated to think about something like that because I'm not getting it and normally I'm a pretty smart person who gets things easily so the fact that this is not as obvious to me is frustrating. Also, scary.

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Hi IVI, please come in and bring your self.

Postby Ilona » Sun Oct 09, 2011 8:45 pm

Thank you for answer. Yes, it is frustrating and scary. This is not what we have been taught at school. And who questions their own existence.

Let the feelings of frustration be ok. Just watch them as a mechanism. It is security system and it's job is to protect. It is doing it's job perfectly. Can you honour that?

Can you ask the fear to come closer, just observe with curiosity and let it be there. Say thank you to it.

Can you take a peak and see what is behind the fear?



Truth will set you free.

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Re: Hi IVI, please come in and bring your self.

Postby Ilona » Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:29 pm

Hey Ivi, where did you dissapear, what is going on, talk to me..

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Re: Hi IVI, please come in and bring your self.

Postby ivi » Sat Oct 15, 2011 12:24 am

I'm here :)
I understand the frustration and I'm ok with it.
I'm not sure about the whole letting the fear come closer and thanking it.
From what I see the fear is there because I don't like the unknown. I like to be ignorant to things that are unpleasant so I really don't try to stir the boat too much in my life. So... I can see why the fear is there. Usually after I get used to change I'm ok with it, but it's usually a slow process.
At this point I've relinquished some of my fears regarding enlightenment, but more deeply rooted fears still exist. Those seem to be very instinctual.

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Hi IVI, please come in and bring your self.

Postby Ilona » Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:46 am

You don't need to understand fear. Just observe it as a mechanism. What is the function of fear itself? It's protecting something from being found out. And it's doing it's job perfectly. That's why you thank it. Just do it, without thinking much about it. Mind can not understand it, it's ok.

When you ask fear to come closer it's saying to it- it's ok, fear, I'm not afraid of you. Sit with me and show me your wisdom.

Then-- look what is behind the fear itself.

Can you do that?
What do you find?

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Re: Hi IVI, please come in and bring your self.

Postby ivi » Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:33 pm

If it's just a mechanism why am I supposed to personalize it?

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Re: Hi IVI, please come in and bring your self.

Postby Ilona » Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:02 pm

Let's call it just a little misunderstanding. Unquestioned assumption.

How is it going, ivi?


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