EEP Seeking Enlightenment

Welcome to the main forum. When you are ready to start a conversation, register and once your application is processed a guide will come to talk to you.
This is one-on-one style forum, one thread per green member.
User avatar
chiefgeek
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:48 pm

EEP Seeking Enlightenment

Postby chiefgeek » Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:49 pm

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I understand that a moderator will ask me questions and lead me to the realization that there is no "I". That which I believe to be my "self" is an illusion kept alive by an ego that lives in fear of its own death. I've read about half of Gateless Gatecrashers and I see myself in many of those being guided.

What are you looking for at LU?
Liberation? ;) I'm seeking an inherent understanding, a knowing, of how life really operates. I'm looking for somebody with the experience to know what to ask and where to lead me. I feel as though I'm very close to passing through the Gate; I just need a bit of a push.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I expect to be guided to places where I can realize the "unknown unknowns" that is what I don't know I don't know. I expect somebody experienced in this knowledge to help me discover that which I feel is "just around the corner". I expect to get questions that will make me think and draw out of me that which is known but somehow forgotten.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
What ISN'T my experience?? Oy. I'm a seeker, an "EEP" as my therapist puts it (evolutionary explorer personality). I've participated in the following:

Two Survivors' Weeks at The Meadows in Arizona (2009, 2013ish)
Completed the three courses of the Landmark core curriculum (Forum, Advanced Course and Self-Expression and Leadership Program (2105-16)
Sat one ten day Vipassana retreat (2016) and worked one three day (2018)
Other miscellaneous meditation and yoga classes
Worked with an excellent coach for over a year. She works with the "3P" framework from Pransky (2016)
I practice yoga regularly (4-6x / week for an hour), on my own and in a class (when we could)
I had one massively wonderful psilocybin journey where I witnessed Source (this was done on my own) (2018)
Guided therapeutic MDMA session for PTSD. Woke my inner healer to begin healing unexplained physical pain lasting more than three years (2018)
A 12 day Ayahuasca retreat in southern Ecuador; six Aya and one San Pedro journey (2019)
I've experienced two Soul Readings by Dr Therese Rowley
For the last 30 days, I've been writing each morning for 30 minutes
I've read many many books from Eckhard Tolle's The Power of Now to Ram Dass' Be Here Now

In short, for the last five years, I've been on a serious quest, prompted by chronic pelvic pain syndrome and later, frozen shoulder. I've healed my body through my spiritual pursuits; modern medicine, despite many efforts, has not touched any of the pain.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
11

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 7937
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Lithuania
Contact:

Re: EEP Seeking Enlightenment

Postby Ilona » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:19 am

Hi Chiefgeek,
Welcome to the forum! Let’s explore together :)
I can ask you questions and you can find your own answers, all you need is strong desire to see the truth, no matter what and honesty with yourself.

When you say that you want to know how life works, the simplest answer is by itself. It’s self working. It’s self arising. It IS.

There idea that you are a separate self that is seeking liberation, seeking to be free from seeking is the seeking. There is no separate self that can get liberated. Like Santa can not get liberated from bringing present to kids. It’s an imagined creature. Same is this separate self.

What is here without this idea?

Does life need your management?

Explore this and write what you notice.

Love.

User avatar
chiefgeek
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:48 pm

Re: EEP Seeking Enlightenment

Postby chiefgeek » Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:04 pm

Hello Ilona -

Thank you for the work you are doing.

To clarify - without the idea of a separate self, what am I left with?

Chiefgeek

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 7937
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Lithuania
Contact:

Re: EEP Seeking Enlightenment

Postby Ilona » Tue Jul 21, 2020 5:13 am

To clarify the question, what is here without the idea of a separate self?
What is here without the idea, that there is a you?

User avatar
chiefgeek
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:48 pm

Re: EEP Seeking Enlightenment

Postby chiefgeek » Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:13 am

There is a body, with a mind, existing and moving through life. The mind has thoughts. Or at least it would seem that the thoughts come from the mind. The thoughts have no inherent meaning.

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 7937
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Lithuania
Contact:

Re: EEP Seeking Enlightenment

Postby Ilona » Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:09 pm

Right. What is here is here, with and without ideas, with and without meaning. Ideas and meaning are added on, in a form of language.
We communicate with words and ideas are part of the whole experience.
Then there is actual experience that is happening now and ideas about experiences that are not happening.
Now, when you are looking for “what is around the corner”, “what is there to find out”— that is happening in the level of ideas.
When you are looking at what is here, right this moment, and become aware of what is actually present, you start finding that which you are looking FOR. And it’s a bit like looking for car keys and realising they are in your hand, and they have been there for a while, you just forgot, disconnected from the keys and went looking for them.

So what is that you are looking for? What would crossing the gate mean?

Love.

User avatar
chiefgeek
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:48 pm

Re: EEP Seeking Enlightenment

Postby chiefgeek » Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:10 pm

Hello Ilona - I hope you are well.

I think I pretty much get it. It's another form of Landmark's "Life is empty and meaningless and it's empty and meaningless that it's empty and meaningless". It's essentially the "power of now". I think it is just a matter of continuing to remind myself to be present to this fact. I've been fighting some kind of strange autoimmune problem for five plus years and the pain and frustration continually acts as an impediment to looking at what is because I spend so much time wishing for what isn't - health. With 45 years of acclimation to a particular way of thinking, the deprogramming isn't as instant.

I'd say I'm looking for flow. Which I realize is sort of counter to the way flow works, as I have experienced it on many occasions as a result of the various learning modalities.

I can see that thought is simply generated by life. There is no thinker, per se, who has control over which thoughts appear. We have only the free will to choose whether to believe or act on the thought.

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 7937
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Lithuania
Contact:

Re: EEP Seeking Enlightenment

Postby Ilona » Fri Jul 24, 2020 5:43 am

Thank you for reply

I hear you, looking for the flow. And flow is a nice state, where everything feels effortless and as it should be.. it’s interesting, because the rest of life is just the same, only wishing something to be different makes it appear as “not flow”.

Life is a continuous flow. Smooth and sweet, rough and turbulent, light and heavy, it’s all flow. There is preference for pleasure and avoidance of pain, but both pleasure and pain are flow, appearing as that.

So trying to always be in ease and avoiding, resisting pain creates an idea, where you should be and what is allowed and what is not. Now who is there deciding what this should be?

Who is there having a relationship with flow of life?
Can you find that voice, that knows what this flow should look and feel like? Who is talking? Who’s words are these? We’re they learned from somebody? Are these words saying truth?

Can you catch that “judge” and see what is going on there, what does it want?

Love.

User avatar
chiefgeek
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:48 pm

Re: EEP Seeking Enlightenment

Postby chiefgeek » Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:04 am

Bah! So sorry for the delay in responding Ilona.

I do see that that trying / striving to be a certain way creates suffering when "I" don't feel as though I'm being that way. I had some edibles the night after you sent the last reply and was able to see how this search for the "I" is futile. It lead to an endless vortex which simply connected with everything. It was more profound than that, however I neglected to write my observations.

I suppose I could say it is the "ego" deciding this.

In answer to your question "Who is there having a relationship with flow of life?", I honestly don't know. If there is nobody to be found, then my very existence is the flow of life. I cannot find a source for the voice. It simply exists. It has always been there. There have been times where some part of me seems to catch the other part of me that feels like it needs to be constantly going, always thinking, always with a problem to solve. Yet there cannot be two parts.

The voice of what the flow should look like is really just a memory of times when my being seemed to be existing effortlessly. Yet this is a craving, an attachment. There's fear of the ease/flow. There's fear of a lack of ease/flow. Every time it seems I have a breakthrough in understanding, I am pulled back through the wormhole as it were. And yet, who is even making this observation?

To quote David Whyte - it's as if I need to "turn sideways into the light". It's as if the answer, the gateless gate, is in a dimension I can't quite visit.

Thanks for your patience.

Love and light.

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 7937
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Lithuania
Contact:

Re: EEP Seeking Enlightenment

Postby Ilona » Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:37 am

Great quote, and yes, literally the I can not go through a gate. The gate is seeing that there is no i to go through a gate. There is no one there to answer to question WHO?

To see this you have to ask- is there I?
Is there I as a separate entity, sitting in the head, talking about life?
Is there I managing what happens in the flow of life?
Is there I that wants to control?
Is there I that is witnessing what is happening?

Is there I at all?

What comes up, when you ask this?

Love.

User avatar
chiefgeek
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:48 pm

Re: EEP Seeking Enlightenment

Postby chiefgeek » Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:14 pm

I want to SAY there is no "I". At one point, working with my coach, she walked my mind to a place of complete emptiness. It was amazing. All thought just went slithering into the corners and disappeared.

And yet, it SEEMS like there is somebody driving. It SEEMS like a separate entity at times, yet intellectually, I know it is not. When I've done MDMA journeys it seems as though the thoughts are arising from another place, a seat of consciousness in my abdomen. The thoughts are clearer and exist without judgment.

The "Voice" is always there. It is far less judgmental than it once was, owing either to the work, getting older or luck! There is a DESIRE to control. There is an awareness that thoughts arise on their own. They cannot be controlled, nor suppressed. And yet it is clear there is NOT a separate entity sitting in the head. The entity is me, this body, this mind, this spirit. It CANNOT manage or control the flow, it can only react. Meaning is assigned.

There is NOT a separate entity to witness, control, manage. There is only the illusion of a this separate entity. What there IS is a continuous thought stream, made known because of my being conscious.

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 7937
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Lithuania
Contact:

Re: EEP Seeking Enlightenment

Postby Ilona » Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:03 am

Thank you for reply, and sharing your experience with a coach. It’s great when thought stream takes a pause, but seeing no self is not about making your mind empty of thoughts, but seeing that all is happening by IT-self. Including thought or no thoughts.

Wanting to control comes from feeling the lack of security. As if thinking about future gives security. But security is found here now. Right here right now are you safe? Are you feeling safe? Do you need to think about future to feel safe or notice that you are safe already?
The entity is me, this body, this mind, this spirit. It CANNOT manage or control the flow, it can only react.
Interesting point. Isn’t reaction part of the flow of life? Does there need to be an entity for reaction to happen? Or the story about reaction creates the entity as the one that reacts?

Like a scratch follows an itch, isn’t reaction an automatic response to what is happening?

How do you see that?

Love

User avatar
chiefgeek
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:48 pm

Re: EEP Seeking Enlightenment

Postby chiefgeek » Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:49 pm

Hello Ilona!

My deepest apologies for the long delay. I recently discovered the channeled works of Paul Selig and it has been amazing! Between the work I've done, what I've been reading and experiencing, along with your loving guidance, I am there. When we last conversed, I was in a very low place. I was reminded by a colleague that I needed to ask for help. I asked the Universe for assistance. It has been forthcoming.

Thank you so much for your time and attention.

Matt

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 7937
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Lithuania
Contact:

Re: EEP Seeking Enlightenment

Postby Ilona » Sat Oct 10, 2020 2:40 pm

Hi Matt! Lovely to see you back! I’m very happy to hear that you have been receiving help and find yourself ‘already there’. Wonderful.
What happened? What changed? What hasn’t?

Please share more about where you are at.
Love


Return to “THE GATE”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 1 guest