What I’m seeing from your replies that you have had a few glimpses, but soon after you are back to thinking, theorizing and interpreting.
You have to abandon thoughts. That’s the only way.
Seeing how this whole game of “self” manifests around. I live in NYC, and seeing the advertisements, people on the sidewalks dressing a certain way to convey a certain message, the decoration of apartments, statements through cars and purses and fancy restaurants.... It’s just seeming more and more like an overwhelming eco-system of others trying to convince themselves and everyone else that they are “x” or “y” or “z”. Desperate to convey that they exist, and in a specified form... It seems like there is so much fear!
You start with “seeing how this whole game of ‘self’ manifest around” – but the thing is that this not seeing, this is thinking.
Yes, your conclusions are valid conventionally speaking, but you cannot see through the illusion by thinking about it, and analysing it.
Do you remember all those exercises when we looked at the difference between thinking and experience? We didn’t simply do them just to see that the thought content is never real, but also to see HOW to look.
To see that no amount of thinking will help you. All thoughts are in the way. They are literally in the opposite direction. Is this clear?
Can you see how useless it is to think, analyse, make conclusions and theories?
It’s astounding to really realize how much obsession with this construct there is!
Yes, but this is still just an intellectual understanding. You were thinking about others, instead of looking at your own obsessions with thoughts here now, in this very moment.
Seeing how much suffering there is, everywhere, in everyone, simmering under the surface, springing from this illusion that there is a self to protect, foster, convey, prop up - it’s astonishing.
OK, so this is what you come to understand intellectually.
But what happens when you stop thinking about it, and looking at the immediate experience here now?
I don’t know if “I” myself am beyond it though. I feel like I’ve seen something very obvious, I can see how simple it is. But I also don’t know if those are expectations coming into play. Or maybe there’s an illusion of self/other coming in here.
Your problem is that you are thinking about this way too much.
Thinking won’t help you.
Just give it up.
Literally, give it up. Let it go. Let thoughts come and go, and just ignore them.
Instead, look what is here now, BEFORE any thinking.
The interconnectedness is making more sense as well - not intellectually, but experientially. Input occurs, “I” react. Output occurs, my partner reacts. And all the constant actions occur simultaneously, like a giant moving dance. Is this understanding still just intellectual though?
This is still intellectual. This whole idea of interconnectedness is an intellectual concept.
You have to let this go if you want to see through the illusion.
And just stay with what is here now.
Other comes in contact with me and changes what I experience.
And yet, the seeing still feels incomplete.
Yes, it is incomplete, since it’s intellectual. You are thinking, instead of looking what is here now.
Can you let go off your desire to think about it?
Can you just stay here now, and just notice what is here in this very moment?
So what is here now? – describe everything that is actually here now in this very moment, and not just a thought story.
It is that “I” am just one vantage of awareness? For lack of a better term? Outside of the stories, the sensations and emotions - there’s awareness. I’ve been working, trying, really stretching to see this morning - even though I know it’s not supposed to require an effort, that it should be simple, that it’s likely more intellectualization.
Because it is. It’s just more thinking.
This morning, “I” realized that I was still clinging to memory as some form of identification - to literally be “separate” from others. Past experiences. Others have other experiences.
This is also more intellectual discovery.
But memories are just thoughts, and thoughts are not real. I know that, you’ve shown me that. And yet - it feels like there is something in the way? Or maybe it really is all this simple?
What is in the way is that you are looking into a wrong direction.
As if you could find the answers in thoughts.
You can’t. It’s not possible.
You have to put aside all thoughts.
And just stay with the simplicity of what is.
It’s more that their awareness, different set of sensations and thoughts feel like me versus other??? Not a self, I know (“I” know - but really!) that it’s just experience - thoughts/emotions/sensations - but they are different sets from mine?
This is an endless fantasy. It’s all thinking. All conceptual.
AHHH! This feels close! But it doesn’t feel totally rock solid!!!! It feels like slipping backwards could happen so easily, but it also feels like “I’ve” seen something very very obvious!
And what is so obvious is the here-and-now experience as it is, BEFORE any thinking.
But you miss it, since you are mesmerized with thoughts.