Halfway there?

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awakeningbk
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Re: Halfway there?

Postby awakeningbk » Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:26 am

Hi Vivien,

Went hiking all day today and just got back! Left at 5:30am and am exhausted. Will answer tomorrow!

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Vivien
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Re: Halfway there?

Postby Vivien » Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:36 am

No problem, thank you for letting me know.
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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awakeningbk
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Re: Halfway there?

Postby awakeningbk » Tue Jul 21, 2020 2:59 am

Reality is what is there when we stop thinking about it.
Real what is here when there is no thought about it.
Reality is what exists REGARDLESS any thought about it.
Are these true statements? True: meaning, are these thoughts I wrote above IN LINE with reality (experience)?
Thank you. To answer your question directly - yes what you wrote is in line with reality as I have experienced it.
And regarding “true” as in line with reality/experience... Yes, that definition resonates and makes sense.

Is this clear now?
Yes - this is clear. I completely agree and can see that thoughts are not reality, cannot be directly experienced, etc. To reference what you said a couple days ago, that the content isn’t relevant, but rather inquiry into the phenomenon itself.
Look at your favourite chair again.
In the moment as you look at it (hence experience it by seeing), think the thought ‘chair’.
That thought might be an accurate (or true) label for the thing you are looking at in the moment, but the thought itself will never ever becomes a real, experiencable thing. The thought ‘chair’ can never become a REAL chair.
Is this clear? Or is there any doubt? Or anything that is not totally clear about this?
This is perfectly clear. Thank you Vivien for diving into these details for me. Everything you’d said thus far rings true and is confirmed by my own experience.

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Vivien
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Re: Halfway there?

Postby Vivien » Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:25 am

Hi awakeningbk,

I’m glad that you are finding these pointers useful.

So, just to make sure that everything is totally clear, and we can start looking at other topics, investigate these:

1. The real isn’t a concept, it is actual life, existence itself.
2. Real = exists
3. That which is real is that WHAT IS, always perfectly, precisely, and absolutely, NOW.


Please check if these statements are true (in line with experience). Is there any doubt? Or anything that is not totally clear?

So, is there a real ego in this very moment?


Please be careful not just think about it, but actually search for an actual, real ego.

And what about a mind? Is there a ‘mind’ here now, in this very moment?

And what about a thinker? Is there someone here, producing thoughts, or somehow making them happen? Or thoughts just happen on their own, automatically, effortlessly? Just as rain is happening without a doer / rainer?


Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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awakeningbk
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Re: Halfway there?

Postby awakeningbk » Tue Jul 21, 2020 2:37 pm

Please check if these statements are true (in line with experience). Is there any doubt? Or anything that is not totally clear?
Yes - this is completely true. There is no doubt about any of the above.
So, is there a real ego in this very moment?
No! There is just thought! Thoughts on thoughts on thoughts and concepts and definitions and categorizations - and yet, for all that - it’s all just goddamn thought! Damn! This one hit me perfectly and squarely between the eyes - thank you Vivien!
And what about a mind? Is there a ‘mind’ here now, in this very moment?
Just thoughts! Arising seemingly from nowhere, randomly
And what about a thinker? Is there someone here, producing thoughts, or somehow making them happen? Or thoughts just happen on their own, automatically, effortlessly? Just as rain is happening without a doer / rainer?
They just pop up - they come out of nowhere! No - I can’t find anyone doing the action - just awareness, arising thoughts, and sensations - that’s all I can find

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Vivien
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Re: Halfway there?

Postby Vivien » Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:19 am

Hi awakeningbk,
No! There is just thought! Thoughts on thoughts on thoughts and concepts and definitions and categorizations - and yet, for all that - it’s all just goddamn thought! Damn! This one hit me perfectly and squarely between the eyes - thank you Vivien!
You did a very nice investigation :)

So, is there any thought, any at all, that is thought by someone, and not just appeared automatically, on its own?
Is there any power over thoughts?


Please investigate these as often as possible during the day. In the midst of your busy life. Look 50+ times, even if just for 10 seconds each. Even if the reply seems to be clear, please look more. The seeing needs to sink in deeply.

Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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awakeningbk
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Re: Halfway there?

Postby awakeningbk » Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:35 am

Hi Vivien, I feel I tried today to bear this in mind, but I don’t think I was as thorough as I could have been... One more day, if you don’t mind?

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Vivien
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Re: Halfway there?

Postby Vivien » Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:45 am

Of course, please be thorough.

Have a nice day,
Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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awakeningbk
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Re: Halfway there?

Postby awakeningbk » Fri Jul 24, 2020 12:58 am

So, is there any thought, any at all, that is thought by someone, and not just appeared automatically, on its own?
Is there any power over thoughts?
Hi Vivien

So I tried the past two days to do so... And it was harder than I thought. When I observed, I could not find anything other than “thought”.. But there were plenty of times “I” believed these thoughts, which caused emotion.

I was left wondering - who is the one who believes the thoughts? Is it the thoughts believing in itself? That is what it seemed, but I am not sure, and am feeling a little lost

If that is not important, I apologize. It made the task of paying attention to whether there was anyone behind the thought more difficult.

And of course, there was no control over those thoughts whatsoever. They just arose.

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Vivien
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Re: Halfway there?

Postby Vivien » Fri Jul 24, 2020 4:55 am

Hi awakeningbk,
I was left wondering - who is the one who believes the thoughts? Is it the thoughts believing in itself? That is what it seemed, but I am not sure, and am feeling a little lost
If that is not important, I apologize. It made the task of paying attention to whether there was anyone behind the thought more difficult.
This is an important, and an excellent question!

Can a thought believe in itself? Is that possible?
In order for this to be true, thoughts have to be real, living entities, who are thinking, feeling, experiencing. But is this so?

What can a thought do?
Can a thought feel?
Can a thought experience?
Can a thought think?
Does a thought have volition?

So now, search for the one that believes thoughts.
Where is the believer? Is it in the chest? In the hands? The lower back? In the head? In the throat? In the forehead? In the eyes? In the ears? Where exactly?


Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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awakeningbk
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Re: Halfway there?

Postby awakeningbk » Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:27 am

Vivien,

This is really stumping me! I’m going to take more time with it and reply tomorrow. Trying not to think, but also confused! Maybe I should meditate?

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Vivien
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Re: Halfway there?

Postby Vivien » Sat Jul 25, 2020 3:44 am

You don't have to meditate. Just sit and just notice what is happening.
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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awakeningbk
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Re: Halfway there?

Postby awakeningbk » Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:30 am

Hi Vivien,

Thanks again for your patience.. This has been hard I have to admit, I’ve tried to just look, and I feel like all I can find are an attachment to the body. The one who believes the thoughts... Is it the body? That’s what it feels like - that’s what it seems like... But something still seems off, or is missing. Like it doesn’t make sense.

When I think about where the one is who believes the thought, there does feel a strong affinity with right behind the forehead, but that doesn’t exist with closer inspection.

Feeling stuck, or uncertain. Is it just the body? Is it that simple?

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Vivien
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Re: Halfway there?

Postby Vivien » Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:26 am

Hi awakeningbk,
Feeling stuck, or uncertain. Is it just the body? Is it that simple?
No, it’s not the body. Before giving you more pointers and questions, I would like to ask you to go back to my previous questions, and reply to them one-by-one. It’s very easy to miss important pointers if you don’t reply to them one-by-one. Also, your comments would help me to see where you are the moment, so I can based my further pointers on them.

Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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awakeningbk
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Re: Halfway there?

Postby awakeningbk » Tue Jul 28, 2020 4:49 am

Hi Vivien,

If you feel that is best, that sounds ok with me. Thank you for your patience and willingness to rehash old ground.


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