Clarity

Welcome to the main forum. When you are ready to start a conversation, register and once your application is processed a guide will come to talk to you.
This is one-on-one style forum, one thread per green member.
User avatar
Allen12
Posts: 88
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:36 am

Re: Clarity

Postby Allen12 » Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:49 am

Hi Jon,

Is it possible to say, with a big fat 'yes' that the illusion is seen and that there is no self, separate from everything that is? That there never was and never will be?

It only seems that way when I investigate and look at whats happening. The majority of the time when I'm not actively paying attention, life just goes on like it always has, as if I'm a separate entity. It seems easy to forget all about no-self and get lost in thought if I don't actively investigate.

Thanks,

Allen

User avatar
JonathanR
Posts: 4313
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:14 pm

Re: Clarity

Postby JonathanR » Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:57 am

Hi Allen,

Your reply does suggest that you are not really confident that the illusion of 'self' is seen for what it is

lets look at what you've said:
. The majority of the time when I'm not actively paying attention, life just goes on like it always has, as if I'm a separate entity
What needs exploring here is, who, or what 'actively pays, attention'?

What is active attention (as different in some way to attention)?

If life 'just goes, on like it always, has', is there an awareness of that? Is, awareness not attention?

Is, there, an assumption that something should, change? If, so, what?

All best

Jon

User avatar
Allen12
Posts: 88
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:36 am

Re: Clarity

Postby Allen12 » Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:30 am

Hi Jon,

What needs exploring here is, who, or what 'actively pays, attention'?

I guess there’s no one controlling attention. It just moves around by itself. There’s no one that actively controls it.

What is active attention (as different in some way to attention)?

There’s no difference. Attention is just attention.

If life 'just goes, on like it always, has', is there an awareness of that? Is, awareness not attention?

There’s not really an awareness of this unless it’s remembered that there’s an ongoing inquiry into no-self.

Is, there, an assumption that something should, change? If, so, what?

Maybe “what is” will be recognized a little more clearly for what it is. Or it will be clear that the self could never exist.

Thanks,

Allen

User avatar
JonathanR
Posts: 4313
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:14 pm

Re: Clarity

Postby JonathanR » Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:08 am

Hi Allen
. I guess there’s no one controlling attention. It just moves around by itself. There’s no one that actively controls it.
Now, don't get me wrong. I'm here to be helpful,, so what I say may sound somehow intolerant or rude or whatever but don't take it that way...

Guesswork is complete nonsense. Its the minds attempt to keep the inquiry on the level of thinking. No control is either seen or not. No amount of guessing will help.
. Maybe “what is” will be recognized a little more clearly for what it is. Or it will be clear that the self could never exist


This will not happen in a future. How could it?

If 'future' never actually arrives, then what is happening right here, right now? And is there any doubt about it?

Jon

User avatar
Allen12
Posts: 88
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:36 am

Re: Clarity

Postby Allen12 » Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:37 pm

Hi Jon,

Now, don't get me wrong. I'm here to be helpful,, so what I say may sound somehow intolerant or rude or whatever but don't take it that way...

Guesswork is complete nonsense. Its the minds attempt to keep the inquiry on the level of thinking. No control is either seen or not. No amount of guessing will help.

No offense taken. Poor choice of words on my part. Didn't mean to write that I was guessing. Definitely can't find the controller of attention or the one who is paying attention.

If 'future' never actually arrives, then what is happening right here, right now? And is there any doubt about it?

So what's happening right now is all there is. This is it. There isn't anything else and there couldn't be anything else. There are just thoughts about the future or past, but they all happen now.


Thanks,

Allen

User avatar
JonathanR
Posts: 4313
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:14 pm

Re: Clarity

Postby JonathanR » Sat Nov 28, 2020 11:04 pm

Hi Allen
. So what's happening right now is all there is. This is it. There isn't anything else and there couldn't be anything else. There are just thoughts about the future or past, but they all happen now
How could it be otherwise? This is quite a powerful moment. That what's going on right now in each moment of 'now' is all there is, for ever.

Same with 'here'. The mind likes to wander elsewhere, or so the illusion suggests, but where else is there?

How do I say this ? Not because I know it like a bit of theory but because its possible for anyone so inclined, to notice this, to 'see' it. And to see it countless times.

But it is very easy to remain unconvinced. So we need to be thorough. The mind can agree on such a point in principal but doubts can remain until its just... obvious?

Thank you.

User avatar
JonathanR
Posts: 4313
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:14 pm

Re: Clarity

Postby JonathanR » Sun Nov 29, 2020 11:41 am

Hi Allen

A funny idea presented it's self to me.

What we've been talking about, it's like someone who says "I'd really like to experience the sky and I know intellectually that there's supposed to be sky. There must be sky. All the sages say so" All the time he remains rather unconvinced, or there are doubts.

But one day he simply turns round to take a look and that's it! Nothing has changed really. But now there's no doubt about it 😅 Ha ha ha! Oh my god! What on earth was he thinking? 😂.

All best

Jon

User avatar
Allen12
Posts: 88
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:36 am

Re: Clarity

Postby Allen12 » Fri Dec 04, 2020 8:53 am

Hi Jon,

Thanks a lot for the analogy.

I know we've discussed guiding style previously and I know you've said that it is basically a non-issue. But I think I would like to try taking a different approach to doing this inquiry now.

I appreciate you and how you've volunteered your time to help me over these past few months. I hope you don't think it's been a waste of time. You've helped me a lot and things are definitely different for me from when we first started.

Thank you,

Allen

User avatar
JonathanR
Posts: 4313
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:14 pm

Re: Clarity

Postby JonathanR » Fri Dec 04, 2020 10:36 pm

Hi Allen,

You're welcome.

Thank you for communicating and letting me know.

Good luck with your inquiry!

Jon


Return to “THE GATE”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 2 guests