Seeing

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seriousrick
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Re: Seeing

Postby seriousrick » Tue Jul 21, 2020 2:24 pm

Thank you, Nic. I will do as you say, let things settle and allow this looking to permeate more of the habitual thoughts that arise with activity, and associations with life. There is no doubt that something has shifted; it is markedly easier to let go, the senses are clearer and it feels very much like a 'door' that is available at any time, provided I allow reality to be exactly as it is!

I will be in touch in a few days time with a little summary of how things are going. Thank you for your service; what a wonderful gift it is.

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Skygazer74
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Re: Seeing

Postby Skygazer74 » Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:07 am

Thank you for your words Rick, and I wonder how you are?

Just to let you know I am going away on Wednesday and starting a retreat Friday so will be offline for a while. Back around August 9th.

Best wishes,

Nic

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seriousrick
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Re: Seeing

Postby seriousrick » Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:02 pm

Hey Nic!

Without labouring the point too much, I was definitely more 'on track' when each day was parsed into a certain kind of looking exercise that I could repeat amongst all the busyness of life. Its primarily emotional states that pull me into identification; aversion from negative feelings and a mental effort to repair/escape, and clinging to positive feelings, normally by repeating whatever behaviour I think gave rise to it (meditation, coding, distractions etc). The addiction runs deep.

I do spend time inquiring into these emotions sometimes, and can sometimes identify the beliefs, dis-identify and then allow emotions to be as they are (which invariably changes the track of their passing, often transmuting into something else).

At this point, I think I need to set up a schedule of different types of looking. Novelty/change has always been a big motivator for me. May as well work with what remains of this selfer!

Any advice much appreciated,

Rick

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Skygazer74
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Re: Seeing

Postby Skygazer74 » Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:57 pm

Hi Rick,
Its primarily emotional states that pull me into identification; aversion from negative feelings and a mental effort to repair/escape, and clinging to positive feelings, normally by repeating whatever behaviour I think gave rise to it
Yes so feelings or emotions will not stop, or even the slight push and pull from or towards different feelings. This is beyond the territory of this enquiry, which is simply about the self. But what exactly is the identification? Do the emotions belong to someone? Is there someone who likes and dislikes the emotion - or are they simply happening?

I prefer feeling good too! There's just nobody doing or avoiding feelings :)
At this point, I think I need to set up a schedule of different types of looking. Novelty/change has always been a big motivator for me. May as well work with what remains of this selfer!
Ok so what does remain of this selfer!?
Where is the self to be found?
Is there anyone finding it?


Best wishes,

Nic

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seriousrick
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Re: Seeing

Postby seriousrick » Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:55 pm

Thanks Nic.

I think what I will do, for now, is go back to day 1 of this thread and repeat the days. It was the specific ways of looking I found helpful, so I'd say there is a good chance they will do so again.

Once I have done that, I will address your final questions. Speak then! :)

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Skygazer74
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Re: Seeing

Postby Skygazer74 » Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:54 am

Hi Rick,

How are you doing? Sorry for the gap at this point in your enquiry, and I hope the reflections have been useful? Let me know where you are at and what is coming up for you, and we can work from there?

Best wishes,

Nic

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seriousrick
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Re: Seeing

Postby seriousrick » Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:33 pm

Hey Nic!

No problem; I understand you have been deep in the work yourself.

To be completely honest, my foot has been missing the gas pedal. But this morning I have started looking for the self in the visual/sound DE again, just like we started. There is still juice in it, and as you say, even barebones inquiry like this is relevant to the 'one who is liking/disliking'.

In the interests of being completely transparent, I would say I experience identification with this dude about 99% of the time.

One thing that is proving quite helpful is the recognition that I am ignoring/postponing those mental alarm bells that go off spontaneously throughout the day, "mindfulness!", "are you awake?" etc. I've been trying to treat these how a soldier might treat a horn of war, as otherwise I'm conditioning myself to stay asleep basically...

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Skygazer74
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Re: Seeing

Postby Skygazer74 » Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:42 pm

Hi Rick,

Thanks for your understanding :)
To be completely honest, my foot has been missing the gas pedal. But this morning I have started looking for the self in the visual/sound DE again, just like we started. There is still juice in it, and as you say, even barebones inquiry like this is relevant to the 'one who is liking/disliking'.
Great, so just keep looking when you have moments, so that it is clear that this self is only found, ever, in thought.

In the interests of being completely transparent, I would say I experience identification with this dude about 99% of the time.
Could you say more about this? What exactly happens when you experience identification? How is it experienced in DE?


Best wishes,

Nic

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seriousrick
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Re: Seeing

Postby seriousrick » Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:25 pm

Could you say more about this? What exactly happens when you experience identification? How is it experienced in DE?
It is true; DE uncovers its nature. A stream of thoughts. But a stream of weary thoughts. Heavy at their own continued recurrence. Heavy at having seen, and yet again being apparently under their yoke.

No sooner than I see through them, do I find myself coming out of some meandering mental voyage. I’m sorry that the tone is heavy, but so is the current state. It seems better to tell the truth.

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Skygazer74
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Re: Seeing

Postby Skygazer74 » Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:11 pm

Hi Rick,

Thanks for being authentic, and perhaps we could look at the heaviness? Are the heavy feelings a response to the thoughts? Or are the thoughts a commentary on the feelings?

What I find helpful, is to distinguish between the mind that thinks, and the wider, more open field of awareness that lies just beneath or beyond thoughts that is sometimes called pristine mind. It is always there in experience, waiting to be fallen into. I feel awakening is simply the shift from the smaller mind to the open and clear mind. This is another way of talking about DE

If thoughts catch, you could try releasing them into that awareness and letting the energy of thought feed the clarity of DE. If thoughts are energy, then left unchecked create more thoughts, as per the law of energy. Its possible to let their energy release into the field of awareness, and let the energy brighten the experience of awareness (or the pristine mind)

These are just some reflections I found useful since the gate, and are not really a part of the guiding here.

It may be worth looking at thought a little further:

Here is a thought exercise. Sit quietly for about 30 minutes and notice the arising thoughts. Just let them appear as they appear. Try your best to COMPLETELY ignore what they are saying and just notice how they appear without you doing anything at all.

Where are they coming from and going to?
Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?
Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?
Can you predict your next thought?
Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?
Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?
Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?
Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence? Or is that just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that ‘one thought follows another thought’?


Try not to worry, suffering doesn't disappear with this seeing, but the identification with it will :)

Best wishes,

Nic

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seriousrick
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Re: Seeing

Postby seriousrick » Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:15 pm

Thank you, Nic.

Shortly after I wrote that I put down my phone and leaned once again into the wind of all the thoughts and feelings I had been avoiding. Soon enough, freedom and equanimity, and the fading of self.

I greatly appreciate your post and will absorb it and action it tomorrow, after some much needed sleep.

Go well, Nic! :)

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seriousrick
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Re: Seeing

Postby seriousrick » Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:36 am

Hello Nic,

I have sat with this a couple of times. During those sessions, it has been like a salve to some of these deeply enmeshed beliefs about responsibility over what thoughts arise. Its some very surprising and welcome stuff. I am, however, increasingly tentative about answering your questions during or immediately after these sittings, as they tend to be quite revelatory. The rest of the time, it is mostly business as usual. Is it wise for me to answer straight after or during, in your experience?

Many thanks,
Rick

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Skygazer74
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Re: Seeing

Postby Skygazer74 » Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:02 pm

Hi Rick,

Sounds refreshing. Since it is best to write about DE rather than thoughts about it, perhaps just make sure that you are looking and writing when you respond. Other than that write whenever you feel in tune :)

Best wishes,

Nic

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Skygazer74
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Re: Seeing

Postby Skygazer74 » Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:10 am

Hi Rick,

How are you doing?

Best wishes

Nic

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seriousrick
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Re: Seeing

Postby seriousrick » Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:38 pm

Thank you for waking me up, Nic. I am finding myself in a new relationship, a little love drunk, but not a million miles from awareness all the time. It enhances it often.

Where are they coming from and going to?

I cannot see where they come from, or where they go to. This idea of self appears to hold or receive them, create them etc. But if I look for direct evidence of that, I can’t find it.

It also begs the question; where does this self come from? Or go to. I mean its always changing anyway. Sometimes paradise, other times a nightmare. If it comes from nothing, slips away into nothing...it can’t be something in between, however much it might appear that way.

For a while, Time appeared to be the source/destination. But I can not directly experience time.

Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?

Now that I look at this, it seems the case that I am almost entirely a reaction to something else. Thoughts about myself are reactions to ‘previous’ thoughts. A dialogue with itself. Strange how a dialog is so convincing.

I’m not really sure how this spell is broken. When I look as you ask, the truth appears. Do we even need to break the spell?

Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?

Not at the exact moment. Maybe in the next...but this idea of choosing is an idea...if no idea is solid then none of what I said makes any sense.

Can you predict your next thought?

My fearful states say they can. But actually its the opposite; all this sense of familiarity “here we go again” etc, this is made afresh each time I go through the ringer, all the while telling myself its an old nightmare.

Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?

No. They are absolutely inseparable. The relationship to them varies widely, though.

Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?
Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

As I begin to do this, it seems like I can change the direction of my thoughts. It will land somewhere in the vicinity of the intention, but is disparate enough that it questions the reality of the intention. And arriving there pushes the intention out of reach even, as it can only be accessed by another thought, one that references a moment before. Looked at in this way, it seems to turn intentionality into just a blurry dance of unconnected moments, but somehow linked IN something...

I feel the urge to apologise that I’m like a broken record. I imagine you getting tired of repeating yourself. But I dont actually know that any more than I know anything else


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