HELP! I can't even see the gate to the stream. I AM REALLY LOST

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Adam
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HELP! I can't even see the gate to the stream. I AM REALLY LOST

Postby Adam » Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:14 pm

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
That there are no independent things, everything exists in relationship to everything else as a part of the one truth of existence.
To have this as a lived experience. Presently, there's a continuous feeling that everything is a separate individual thing. How is that I feel so disconnected from everything, yet can't find any dividing line.

What are you looking for at LU?
Hopefully only a little help, a bit of a push in the right direction. To a lived direct experience of existence, by working out what is currently stopping me. If someone who truly lives as a liberated being

There are so many well-meaning, caring, but much-misguided individuals who simply don't embody the teaching they espouse. For some reason, I think if I could only see the reality of what living from the space free from a divided self. It would validate the worthiness of this pursuit.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
There is some simple disconnect between the very comfortable intellectual understanding and acceptance of the feeling for the possibility of oneness and the experiential of living it as realised, permanent, whole state.

Whatever it is that is stopping me, might be immediately evident to someone who has completed the journey. Currently, my inquiries always seem to end up in a comfortable, blank, non-emotional "I don't know".

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
For the past couple of years, this has been the focus of my life.
In the beginning, everything was tried, reading several books a week, meditating for up to eight hours a day, plant-based diet, no alcohol or coffee, intermittent fasting, lucid dreaming. They were also lots of journeys to talk with non-dual teachers, India mistics, and various other gurus. Every opportunity was taken to speak and question anyone who had dedicated significant time in their lives on anything spiritual.

After the first six months, I was running in a completely wrong direction.
I have an internal sense that it should all be so simple. I believe I understand the ineffability of the subject, but I can't understand why no one seems to point it out for me.

Recently I stopped all meditating and have significantly cut back on the reading of spiritual books. Opting for silent introspection and long walks in nature. I tried on several occasions to start both online and in-person group meeting to discuss actual person awakening insights, practical tips and simple communal support. No-one turned up, people expressed interest, but four times a week for months I waited alone.

Ultimately everyone is their own teacher. Unfortunately, my internal teacher seems to be on extended school holidays.

To be the purest expression if being in this form, moving through this life and hopefully be able to help others find the truth for themselves. Currently, I am coercing my ego to try to live each moment in the most honest and best way, not just for myself but for all beings. This takes a lot of energy, and I often can't tell what is pure and what is tainted by the ego. There must be a way of being, where no energy is wasted on internal struggles, and pure spontaneous action can arise and do whatever needs to be done.

How other people rate their ten? In my experience trying to sort this out with people who have supposedly spent decades dedicating themselves intensely to spiritual inquiry have hypnotised themselves into some comfortable religious state, not wanting to grown or deepen. Although seeming giving themselves entirely to this pursuit, their fire is only smouldering. This is not me.

Having had a tiny peak beyond self, I can't understand why it is so hard to find people who are living from this selfless state. I have the feeling that many may have a very deep intellectual understanding of the concept, but the lived reality is simply missing. I have left my previous comfortable stress life sold everything I own moved to another country and am sleeping on an inflatable mattress in a friends spare room to expose my self to every opportunity of getting this sorted. At this moment, there is simply nothing I can think of that I would not do to realise this and then to help as many people as physically possible to awaken to the truth.

There is no reason I can see why I am pursuing this so doggedly; my life is so close to perfect. Yet all of that doesn't matter if I am not able to live in any circumstances from a pure aware state of being.

This is why I am honestly rating myself as a ten.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10

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s-p-a-c-e
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Re: HELP! I can't even see the gate to the stream. I AM REALLY LOST

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:05 pm

Hi Adam,

Thank you for the introduction.

Not sure I'm the guide for you, but fuck it, let's walk along together see what happens.

Let me know if you'd like to start, and we will. :)

Best wishes,
John
a guide here
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne

Author, The Faun's Apprentice - see on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fauns-Apprenti ... B01AR2B63U

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Adam
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Re: HELP! I can't even see the gate to the stream. I AM REALLY LOST

Postby Adam » Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:37 pm

John, Thanks for your offer to try to help, I am grateful for any offer of assistance.

Ready whenever you are.

Adam

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Re: HELP! I can't even see the gate to the stream. I AM REALLY LOST

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Wed Jun 24, 2020 12:26 am

Hi Adam,

John, Thanks for your offer to try to help, I am grateful for any offer of assistance.

Ok. :)

Hopefully only a little help, a bit of a push in the right direction

There'll be no pushing in any direction.

There is some simple disconnect between the very comfortable intellectual understanding and acceptance of the feeling for the possibility of oneness and the experiential of living it as realised, permanent, whole state

Perfectionist bullshit. So drop that, or archive it, whatever.

Whatever it is that is stopping me,

See above.

I have an internal sense that it should all be so simple.

It is and it isn't.

Ultimately everyone is their own teacher..

You are.

To be the purest expression if being in this form, moving through this life and hopefully be able to help others find the truth for themselves. Currently, I am coercing my ego to try to live each moment in the most honest and best way, not just for myself but for all beings. This takes a lot of energy, and I often can't tell what is pure and what is tainted by the ego. There must be a way of being, where no energy is wasted on internal struggles, and pure spontaneous action can arise and do whatever needs to be done.

It takes a lot of energy because you've set it up to fail.
Add idealism to perfectionism comment.

my life is so close to perfect.

;)


You've been fooling yourself for years and now it's time to stop.
So give the bed a good pump up and have a lovely night's sleep.

Night,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne

Author, The Faun's Apprentice - see on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fauns-Apprenti ... B01AR2B63U

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Adam
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Re: HELP! I can't even see the gate to the stream. I AM REALLY LOST

Postby Adam » Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:10 pm

John,

Just finished reading your book. You wrote this four years ago and since you have removed all your blog entries from your website, have your thoughts about the teachings from your book changed?

It seems like you have had years of trying to help people, how has the effectiveness of your help changed now that it comes from a liberated being compared to from your former self?

Do you have any idea of the numbers of people you have been able to guide to an abiding seeing through of the self?

Thanks, Adam

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Re: HELP! I can't even see the gate to the stream. I AM REALLY LOST

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:35 pm

Just finished reading your book. You wrote this four years ago and since you have removed all your blog entries from your website, have your thoughts about the teachings from your book changed?

Always evolving.

It seems like you have had years of trying to help people, how has the effectiveness of your help changed now that it comes from a liberated being compared to from your former self?

I woke myself up before I started guiding. So no comparison to make.

Do you have any idea of the numbers of people you have been able to guide to an abiding seeing through of the self?

Around 40.
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne

Author, The Faun's Apprentice - see on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fauns-Apprenti ... B01AR2B63U

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Adam
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Any suggestions on what I should do first?

Postby Adam » Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:59 pm

What would be useful for me to do or provide you with to make it easier for the process to work?

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Re: Any suggestions on what I should do first?

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:18 pm

Adam,

What would be useful for me to do or provide you with to make it easier for the process to work?

We've already started. No-one can be made to see. Hence no push in any direction. So we can relax.

What you see/don't see is a function of your perceptions/beliefs. If these remain the same, you see what you've always seen. in general, and I'm no different, we want to have our cake and eat it. To retain our perceptions AND see. Doesn't work.

So, if I've been a little abrupt with you, it's not because I have an issue with you, quite the opposite, it's because I care for you, and can see that you were stuck in an idealistic cage, so I wanted to bring this to your attention.

If you carry your idealism on your back, it's going to wear you down.

Have a ponder on this a little while, and share with me.

Best wishes,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne

Author, The Faun's Apprentice - see on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fauns-Apprenti ... B01AR2B63U

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Adam
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Don't waste your time. You should probably bin this.

Postby Adam » Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:12 am

I have read over your last response, I am still pondering.

That was meant to be all I was going to write tonight. Just to let you know I am taking this seriously.

But then this pile of nonsense came out.


Definity stuck, can't seem to find out how or with what. I have been reading through the Liberation Unleashed Look book and the quotes from the app. I can't seem to get anything from them at the moment, reading, re-reading and writing them out. Sitting down staring, they might as well be in another language, and I feel like I am getting dumber by the minute. Seriously the more I read and study, the less I know, forget that I don't actually know anything.

Your right, I believe I have an idea that is very accepting of all that I have read, I almost feel like I can comfortably accommodate all these little bits of information into them in. Because I accept it all, nothing seems like a big deal, sitting today the only thing I could feel was a mild amount of annoyance for not being moved, inspired or even fully getting what I studied. Thinking about this, any physical task wouldn't be a problem. If I thought a pilgrimage to Rome was what was needed, I could be out the door in two minutes. I don't have to go anywhere, and I don't have to do much physically, but, yet all I seem to do is internally go "yes, I can accept that, yes that fits in, nothing to think about here, move along". It is like there is a big dull void with a massive disconnect from the message to anything affecting me. I can comfortably dismissive with just about any concept, am I kidding myself because I think this is living with equanimity? I don't really know what game I am playing at.

Maybe I have built up some spiritual quest story that I am just acting out. Today I felt like screaming at myself "This is important, pay attention, take this in, make sure you really get this." Where is this apathy coming from, the past six months, I have been frantically trying every avenue to find someone like you free from the delusion of a self. I don't know what is going on. I will look at this more tomorrow.

Reading over this, it sounds a little schizophrenic. I don't know why I would be getting in my own way so much.

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Re: Don't waste your time. You should probably bin this.

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:54 pm

Hey Adam,

That was meant to be all I was going to write tonight. Just to let you know I am taking this seriously.
But then this pile of nonsense came out.


Definity stuck, can't seem to find out how or with what. I have been reading through the Liberation Unleashed Look book and the quotes from the app. I can't seem to get anything from them at the moment, reading, re-reading and writing them out. Sitting down staring, they might as well be in another language, and I feel like I am getting dumber by the minute. Seriously the more I read and study, the less I know, forget that I don't actually know anything.

It's likely to be because this is not what you need at this time, hence 'might as well be in another language'.

Your right, I believe I have an idea that is very accepting of all that I have read, I almost feel like I can comfortably accommodate all these little bits of information into them in. Because I accept it all, nothing seems like a big deal, sitting today the only thing I could feel was a mild amount of annoyance for not being moved, inspired or even fully getting what I studied.

It's a common experience Adam, I've certainly been there.

Thinking about this, any physical task wouldn't be a problem. If I thought a pilgrimage to Rome was what was needed, I could be out the door in two minutes. I don't have to go anywhere, and I don't have to do much physically, but, yet all I seem to do is internally go "yes, I can accept that, yes that fits in, nothing to think about here, move along". It is like there is a big dull void with a massive disconnect from the message to anything affecting me. I can comfortably dismissive with just about any concept, am I kidding myself because I think this is living with equanimity? I don't really know what game I am playing at.

Accepting an idea in general keeps the status quo. It's probably not accepted deeply anyway. The point is, this approach is guaranteed to keep things as they are, whilst telling yourself you don't want to keep things as they are. It's a kind of living contradiction that many folk are in on this path. It's frustrating, sometimes angering, often dulling. So yes, you're kidding yourself, but again, nothing new in that. We have to spin it to ourselves that it's got some grand aim, if only to lift our spirits a bit.

Maybe I have built up some spiritual quest story that I am just acting out. Today I felt like screaming at myself "This is important, pay attention, take this in, make sure you really get this." Where is this apathy coming from, the past six months, I have been frantically trying every avenue to find someone like you free from the delusion of a self. I don't know what is going on. I will look at this more tomorrow.

In general, the apathy comes from the fact of having tried this, that and the other, and nothing changes, so you end up going fuck it, what's the point, and apathy comes knocking.

Reading over this, it sounds a little schizophrenic. I don't know why I would be getting in my own way so much.

It's really like an elaborate dance so we can avoid the real issue - which is that I'm not being honest with myself.

And again, the thing is, we spin it that we ARE being honest, totally honest, ruthlessly honest. But it's mostly, if not all, bullshit. Our capacity for self-delusion borders on the heroic. :D And I'm speaking as someone with the complete set of self-delusion badges. :)

Now being honest with ourselves is really not an easy thing to take on. It's a battle, in which we have to fight our own inclination for self-spin and delusion. But we just have to keep at it.

My number one tip is: at least in this period, just assume you're not being honest with yourself, deluding yourself. At least then you can start working with it, rather than endlessly debating whether you are or aren't. Presume you are and go from there.

Ok, that's probably enough right now...have a mooch, walk with it, and share when you're ready.

With warm wishes,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne

Author, The Faun's Apprentice - see on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fauns-Apprenti ... B01AR2B63U

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Adam
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I might not write for a little while but stick with me. Know that I when I do write again. Hopefully, it will be coming

Postby Adam » Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:54 am

You are absolutely on the money here.

I am in a battle with the ego. When I look at things, they don't immediately feel to be lies, which I know they are. As if I am playing with this on a shallow intellectual way, I who am I trying to kid? This is ridiculous, why is there even this other in the way?

Although I am saying, I am taking this seriously, the reality at any moment, when I stop to notice shows other thoughts and daydreams and the content of my consciousness.

I am going to take some time to try to be all in with this. When I read back over everything I have written, it is all bull. It's all a story, a well-meaning story.

I feel I shouldn't have to be thinking about this subject, and it should simply what I am doing in every moment.

I need to be all in or to get out.

So I might not write for a little while but stick with me. Know that I when I do write again. Hopefully, it will be coming from a clearer place.

Thanks so far, just knowing you are around when needed is a massive relief.

Adam

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Re: I might not write for a little while but stick with me. Know that I when I do write again. Hopefully, it will be com

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:31 am

Hi Adam,

You are absolutely on the money here.

I am in a battle with the ego. When I look at things, they don't immediately feel to be lies, which I know they are. As if I am playing with this on a shallow intellectual way, I who am I trying to kid? This is ridiculous, why is there even this other in the way?

Although I am saying, I am taking this seriously, the reality at any moment, when I stop to notice shows other thoughts and daydreams and the content of my consciousness.

I am going to take some time to try to be all in with this. When I read back over everything I have written, it is all bull. It's all a story, a well-meaning story.

I feel I shouldn't have to be thinking about this subject, and it should simply what I am doing in every moment.

I need to be all in or to get out.

So I might not write for a little while but stick with me. Know that I when I do write again. Hopefully, it will be coming from a clearer place.

Thanks so far, just knowing you are around when needed is a massive relief.

Adam

Was heartening to read this, thank you. Starting to notice that shallowness and self-deception is a huge step, so good work, and the work continues.

Our tendency is generally to overthink, to try and solve it without recourse to the heart, but it's a distraction, which is part of the challenge. But still we overthink anyway. :)

If I could offer an orientation it's to come back time and again to your relationship with yourself - in everyday terms, do I like me? If not, why not. Is there some issue I could do with exposing to myself, letting the air get to it? For example, we might feel some old hurt about not being loveable, feeling unwanted, that we don't deserve anything and so on. So in general, we're wanting to open up our hearts to ourselves, to widen the landscape, and sometimes, to give ourselves a fricken break.

That may sound odd on a forum about 'no-self' :) but we're working with the soil here, bringing about good conditions for our well-being, really important and valuable work.

Stay open, be ruthlessly gentle with yourself :) and I look forward to the next post.

With much love,
john
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne

Author, The Faun's Apprentice - see on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fauns-Apprenti ... B01AR2B63U


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