I would like to finally see this

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Vivien
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Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:07 am
Location: Australia

Re: I would like to finally see this

Postby Vivien » Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:16 am

Hi Anton,

You’ve missed the other pointers. So please go back and read my previous post and look with these questions too:

So when you look here-now, what do notice?
What IS right now?
A thought can not do anything, they just appear.
But when I believe what thoughts are saying about "me" then they grab the attention. Sorry but I am not sure if I understand this question.
Have you ever seen or observed a thought ACTUALLY (LITERALLY) grabbing attention?
How does that happen?
Does both thoughts and attention have hands, and thought grabs with its hand the hand of attention?

If you say that you can see that a thought cannot do anything, then how could it grab attention?
What if attention automatically focuses on certain thoughts, without any doing?



Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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anton2020
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2020 5:56 am

Re: I would like to finally see this

Postby anton2020 » Tue Sep 22, 2020 1:21 am

Hello Vivien,

But awaking is not something to wait for to happen in the future.
It’s not in the future.
It’s here now.
It’s ALREADY here, waiting for you to NOTICE.
Very useful this "It’s ALREADY here, waiting for you to NOTICE".
So when you look here-now, what do notice?
What IS right now?
Hands moving, sounds, thoughts, sensations, more thoughts.
Have you ever seen or observed a thought ACTUALLY (LITERALLY) grabbing attention?
How does that happen?
Does both thoughts and attention have hands, and thought grabs with its hand the hand of attention?

If you say that you can see that a thought cannot do anything, then how could it grab attention?
What if attention automatically focuses on certain thoughts, without any doing?
Thoughts just appear and attention focuses on them (without any doing).

When there are thoughts, it seems that attention always focuses on them (not only on certain thoughts). Many things happening around me, but attention always goes to thoughts.

What is the difference (in attention) when "I" am lost in thoughts and when "I" aware of them? Confused here.

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Vivien
Posts: 7037
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:07 am
Location: Australia

Re: I would like to finally see this

Postby Vivien » Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:36 am

Hi Anton,
Very useful this "It’s ALREADY here, waiting for you to NOTICE".
Exactly! Just let this be your mantra :) … just repeatedly notice what is presently here, again and again and again….
Hands moving, sounds, thoughts, sensations, more thoughts.
And what else is here? What else is present?
Many things happening around me, but attention always goes to thoughts.
When you say that ‘many things happening around me’ then what does the word ‘me’ refer to in this sentence? To the body?

Are you the body?

Is the body a person, an entity, who is thinking, feeling, deciding, choosing, etc?
Or this entity maybe INSIDE the body?
Or where is it?

What is the difference (in attention) when "I" am lost in thoughts and when "I" aware of them? Confused here.
You don’t have to put the word I into quotation marks. Since it doesn’t really change anything. As long as it’s not clear what happens when a SEEMING ‘being lost in thoughts’ happen, there is an apparent I that is being lost in thought. So let’s investigate that.

Look for the I, or the thing that is sometimes being lost in thoughts, and some other times don’t?
What is it exactly that is moving back and forth, or rather say, in and out of thoughts?


Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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anton2020
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2020 5:56 am

Re: I would like to finally see this

Postby anton2020 » Mon Oct 05, 2020 12:44 am

Hi Vivien,

It's been a busy week, working until very late and resting very little. Very busy mind trying to solve problems at work. I was frustrated in the beginning, as there were only thoughts trying to solve this work problems all the time, but I decided to use this situation to watch all these thoughts. So I have been all this week watching them, until yesterday, when the problems were solved. After this it has been easier to look into your questions.

I got more clarity about not having control over them. Thoughts about solving problems appeared all the time, and I couldn't do anything to stop it.
And what else is here? What else is present?
I believed there was something observing thoughts.When I was waiting for thoughts to appear (no thoughts at that moment), I believed there were something watching/waiting for them. But it was a sensation on the back of the head or a sensation in the eyes. .
There are thoughts, sounds, sensations (head, eyes), colors, smells.....nothing else? I need to look more into this but it's like I believe that I am a sensation.

Look for the I, or the thing that is sometimes being lost in thoughts, and some other times don’t?
What is it exactly that is moving back and forth, or rather say, in and out of thoughts?
When attention focuses for long periods on thoughts and then goes somewhere else (sounds, a sensation), it seems that I was lost in thoughts.
Attention goes to thoughts because it seems like they are telling something important, and they seem important because there is a belief that an entity is creating them.
In my experience, being lost in thoughts is just attention been focused on thoughts for long periods + identification with the me character of the story thoughts are telling.
When you say that ‘many things happening around me’ then what does the word ‘me’ refer to in this sentence? To the body?

Are you the body?

Is the body a person, an entity, who is thinking, feeling, deciding, choosing, etc?
Or this entity maybe INSIDE the body?
Or where is it?
Because of thoughts and sensations I've always believed that if there is an entity it's inside the head.

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Vivien
Posts: 7037
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:07 am
Location: Australia

Re: I would like to finally see this

Postby Vivien » Mon Oct 05, 2020 11:02 am

Hi Anton,
I believed there was something observing thoughts.When I was waiting for thoughts to appear (no thoughts at that moment), I believed there were something watching/waiting for them. But it was a sensation on the back of the head or a sensation in the eyes. .
There are thoughts, sounds, sensations (head, eyes), colors, smells.....nothing else? I need to look more into this but it's like I believe that I am a sensation.
If you aware of a sensation, then how could you be that? How could you be an object that you know?

Look, is there any sensation that is aware?
Is there any sensation that is thinking?
Is there any sensation that makes decisions?
Is there any sensation that is moving the body?
Is there any sensation that feels?

What can a sensation do? Can it do anything at all?

Because of thoughts and sensations I've always believed that if there is an entity it's inside the head.
But is there? Is there an entity inside the head, right now? Or all there is to the head are sensations?

What happens if you investigate the validity of this assumption? Can it stand up to scrutiny?


Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/


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