Know 1 - I have had glimpses but somehow have managed to cover them over again

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Know1
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Re: Know 1 - I have had glimpses but somehow have managed to cover them over again

Postby Know1 » Thu Jul 09, 2020 12:11 pm

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

When I look there is no-thing i can find, that I could say is a 'self', 'me' or 'I' , however, there is an experience of a familiar voice of unknown origin which I am in constant dialogue with. This voice seems alien yet not separate when I examine the voice or daydreams that appear I cannot see any rhyme, reason, precursor or possible origin for their content.


2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.


I don't know the ego/self is missing until it barges back into my conscious awareness and starts providing a very detailed critical running commentary. This has only happened a few times and about eight months ago and not again in the same dramatic way since.

At this moment it feels as if there is another which is not separate from me but is not me, providing both visual daydreams and vocal comments in response to everything that is going on. Involved fully in a task the strength of appearance of this in my conscious awareness is weak and to the background, but still present.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days. (In your case, please report from a recent or impactful experience.)


There is an annoyance, with the feeling of pointlessness to the selfs interference in every aspect of everything. I was blind to this in the past. I just thought it was me and needed for life. Now knowing that I am actually no-thing but everything there is a frustration to why this illusion persists.


4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?


I simply gave up, stopped striving, pushing, running full speed. Then the funny part for me I didn't even know until it was over and the ego reasserted itself. Now there is knowing of being if I could only just get out of my own way.
5) Describe -

5.1) decision - These have become very weak, I feel I will pretend to keep thinking I am making a decision because what else can I do. But I am more able to let things be.

5.2) intention - This is something I have come to realise as something I have always had. I have held strong intentions and I don't know how but I am confident they will be realised and as far as I can recall they always have.

5.3) free will - I can't see where any personal will would come from but I act as I have it.

5.4) choice - These are all the same for me, I carry on as if any of these were true yet ultimately I don't know if they are and I don't care, there is no real resistance either way.

5.5) control - This is very apparent to me in regards to the matter of the illusion of self. I feel I know, understand, see-through, yet can't control it in any way.

a) What makes things happen?


I don't know. Things just seem to happen. I still do what I do, but I have an acceptance an internal peace that has been growing more and more. That it doesn't matter, what happens happens.

b) How does it work?


I have no idea, it's funny because the more I read and study around these subjects the more I simply don't know.

c) What are you responsible for?



I am not really sure, this is a big issue for me. Sometimes I feel I am responsible for everything other times it feels clear that nothing can be changed so I can just do what I do.

Z) Give examples from experience.


There recently has arisen in me a great urge to help people to the fullest of my capabilities. This is something that has not been part of me before. Yet I couldn't work out who best to help, how best to help and ultimately how to know if my assistance actually helped. So I decided I would simply serve, and do whatever I could whenever able. Looking back over the past six months of doing nothing by trying to help as much as I could. It all looks pointless. One one hand I feel like I made absolutely no difference to anything, the things people asked of me to help them with haven't really changed. Yet I couldn't have done anything else or more and it has been surprisingly easily able to let go of the frustration of not achieving more. It's just what is happening and everything is ok.

6) Anything to add?


No

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Re: Know 1 - I have had glimpses but somehow have managed to cover them over again

Postby Anastacia42 » Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:57 pm

Good morning,

Thank you. Those answers are helpful to help me know where to point.

First, this:
There is an annoyance, with the feeling of pointlessness to the self's interference in every aspect of everything.
e ego/self is missing until it barges back into my conscious awareness and starts providing a very detailed critical running commentary.
What "self?" See below for an exercise about this seeming sense of something called "self."

Remember, Actual or Direct Experience is ONLY:

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation not emotions - emotions are body sensations with content of thought, a story about the sensation)
Tasting
Smelling
Thought Arising (but NOT content of thought, these are made-up stories that had to be taught to us)


Here we distinguish between the non-existent "self" and the fact of Awareness. There is Awareness. It doesn't go away and we cannot control it. It just is.

Yes, thoughts will keep arising, probably for as long as you seem to be "alive." It's like this:

Explore ‘Sense of Self’

Let’s say that you have lost your keys and you swear that you left them in your coat. You go to look and check all the pockets - the keys are not there. You swear they must be as that was the last place you remember them. You have a vivid memory of putting them there after you left the house. But when you check they are not there. At this point you can keep believing that the keys are in your pocket, or you can admit you were mistaken. This is just like that. You may see clearly that the self is an illusion but still feel a sense of self - just like the keys.

But feeling something to be true and seeing that it is or is not is different.

Now, I’d like to ask you to explore this SENSE of self very, very thoroughly. Not by thinking about it, but by FEELING it.

Keep the focus of attention on the sense of self and inquire:

Does the sense of self have a location?

Does the sense of self have a shape or a size?

Does the sense of self say or communicate anything?

If the answer is yes, how does the sense do this exactly?

Does the sense of self have any characteristics or attributes?

What is the sense of self ‘made of’? An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation? Thought?

This is why we may find ourselves coming back to your expectations at the start and at the end.


The other thing going on is this drive to share with "others." That is a fine thing to do when you are clear. In fact, it is my opinion that it's a fine thing to do even if you are not perfectly clear. Trying to explain it to others helps solidify your own seeing. But there is no "other" and they don't need some kind of "saving." Can you see this?

Oh, and "ego?" Remember, we had no "ego" until a cigar-smoking cocaine addict in Austria said we did. That is also a totally made up concept, just like Santa Claus. It's a story. There is no basis in AE (Actual Experience). Can you find this "ego" in your AE?

You're dealing with your expectations. You appear to have expected some never-ending state of bliss and no thought. That doesn't happen.
I simply gave up, stopped striving, pushing, running full speed.
Can you do that again?

Remember, expectations and fear are the only things that keep us from the present now.

Loving,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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Why can't I just leave myself alone?

Postby Know1 » Sat Jul 11, 2020 2:12 pm

Does the sense of self have a location?

When there is the vocal or visual invasion of awareness, there is a strong feeling of it being roughly located in the vicinity of the head. Awareness without this is harder to pinpoint.

Does the sense of self have a shape or a size?


It's felt size shape and location is best described as void. Loosely it feels like it floats around me, but everything disappears as soon as pay more attention.
Nothing as in not existing, yet it feels like there is something there. No size, no shape but I have a sense of it being infinite. Sorry, this is my worst explanation of anything ever.


Does the sense of self say or communicate anything?


The experience of visual and auditory interruptions are obviously a manifestation of the self, yet the sense of them is slightly alien.

If the answer is yes, how does the sense do this exactly?


Visually and with sounds, including voice.

Does the sense of self have any characteristics or attributes?


Yes, it's super annoying. It does nothing constructive as far as I can see. I can communicate with it as if it was another being and am often surprised by what it comes up with as the ideas or thoughts feel alien. Yet it doesn't feel separate in any way.

What is the sense of self 'made of'? An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation? Thought?


All of the above. Primarily visual with sound.

The other thing going on is this drive to share with "others." That is a fine thing to do when you are clear. In fact, it is my opinion that it's a fine thing to do even if you are not perfectly clear. Trying to explain it to others helps solidify your own seeing. But there is no "other", and they don't need some kind of "saving." Can you see this?

Sometimes I see this very clearly. I know it makes no difference. Yet I just can't shut my mouth, and my egotistical arrogance sickens me.

One expectation is definitely - once I am abiding free from the influence from the illusionary self I expect none of this will matter.

Although it might sound like you are conversing with a crazy person who is struggling with everything, I am graced with an amazingly wonderful life, and I have no idea why I am even tormenting myself on this path.
Oh, and "ego?" Remember, we had no "ego" until a cigar-smoking cocaine addict in Austria said we did. That is also a totally made up concept, just like Santa Claus. It's a story. There is no basis in AE (Actual Experience). Can you find this "ego" in your AE?

Sorry for the confusion and ambiguity in my writing. Coherently putting words together is a struggle. I am very clear in experience, just not so much in trying to convey it. I generally avoid writing whenever possible.

I, self and ego are just labels I was using in the hope for a sense of the not-me that again appears in my awareness out of nowhere. There is an annoyance to my paying attention to the appearance of an illusory other, whos arising in consciousness immediately separates everything. I can't find anything, yet there is this experience.

You're dealing with your expectations. You appear to have expected some never-ending state of bliss and no thought. That doesn't happen.



I didn't mean to convey this, never-ending bliss - what a bore. But I definitely have a lot more expectation then I thought I did.

Its really the feeling of separating or other that is experienced when the visual and auditory distractions catch my awareness, the frustration comes from not being able to let them just come and go.
I simply gave up, stopped striving, pushing, running full speed.
Can you do that again?

It was a total surrender, dropping of everything. It was physiological rather than metal. It felt more like everything I didn't do as opposed to doing something, and in retrospect, it seemed inevitable and not of my doing.
It could happen again, and I am doing as much as I can in preparation, it is as if I am pushing myself to a cliff's edge where the outcome is inevitable.


Remember, expectations and fear are the only things that keep us from the present now.


This is precisely where the frustration and inability just to let these intrusions in my awareness freely come and go without engaging them.

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Re: Know 1 - I have had glimpses but somehow have managed to cover them over again

Postby Anastacia42 » Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:41 pm

Good morning (here in Colorado, anyway)

Sorry, this is my worst explanation of anything ever.

I laughed at this, because it's so true. Words just can't do it. Not your fault that it's hard to explain what does not exist.

First, you *must* relax, let go, surrender, sink in. There is no other way. Seeing will not happen with you stressing, grasping, and irritated.


As far as whether or not I'm communicating with a crazy person - In one sense we know that that's true. It is crazy to see something that is not there. But in normal circumstances, I realize you're a perfectly sane individual who is simply trying to see that there is no self.
The experience of visual and auditory interruptions are obviously a manifestation of the self, yet the sense of them is slightly alien.
What "sell?"

Remember Colored Socks? Report only what is AE.

What is the sense of self 'made of'? An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation? Thought?


All of the above. Primarily visual with sound.
So, if I were there with you, would I see & hear it, too? Or not?

Is there really ACTUAL Experience? Or only thought that says so?

Look very, very carefully.


Answer each question above first. Then try the exercise below. You can post replies to the above and then to the exercise separately, if you like. In fact, please do. That will give you more time on this exercise.


Mind labeling experience

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation ie is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example:

I am sitting on a chair,
I am hearing a clock ticking,
I am looking at a computer screen,
I am feeling hungry.

Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just
a plain description of your experience right here and now. Follow the instructions exactly.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

For example:

Sitting on a chair,
typing,
breathing,
blinking,
hearing the clock.

(Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

2. What is here without labels?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

4. Did you notice any differences in the body? If not, keep looking.]


Relax & enjoy looking!
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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Oh, dear, oh, dear, oh dear.

Postby Know1 » Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:21 am

Look very, very carefully.
Oh, dear, Oh, dear. No need to look carefully

So, if I were there with you, would I see & hear it, too? Or not?
This sentence hit me. What was going on? Nothing to hear or see or anything only thought that says so. How stupid.

I am only joking here, but this manifestation of infinite intelligence all of a sudden appears to be very thick.

I have to sit with this for a few days.
I also will be travelling and probably won't have access to the internet. So if I am a little quiet, please don't give up on me.

I will also spend time with the exercise and report back next time we communicate.

Thanks so far

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Re: Know 1 - I have had glimpses but somehow have managed to cover them over again

Postby Anastacia42 » Tue Jul 14, 2020 12:46 pm

Good morning,

Good noticing that it is only thought thar says so.

Thanks for letting me know you'll be traveling.

Do try to LOOK & practice the exercise each day, even if you can't post daily. This request is to help you, to keep the momentum going.

Much love,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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Doubts and confusion. A little lost at the moment.

Postby Know1 » Sun Jul 19, 2020 1:07 pm

At the moment, there seems to be a lot of doubt, confusion and worry that what is experience and might simply be another level of deception of self-talk/thinking.

I have done the exercise several times over the past few days. The experience has stayed the same, and I am not really sure what is true and what is imaginary or self-constructed.
1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

Both seemed the same, as soon as anything is written down labelling occurs automatically. The only thing I noticed different was when the sentences started with "I am" there was a longer and more detailed explanation.
2. What is here without labels?
So there might be a feeling of awareness or knowing before more focused or directed attention for the process of labelling. But I am not sure about what is actually true at the moment.
3. Do labels affect the experience or describe it?
Merely the act of writing takes me away from experience, into my mind, it is a struggle to put anything experienced accurately and succinctly into words.
4. Did you notice any differences in the body? If not, keep looking.]
The difference in the body comes from frustration in my inability to express myself in written form. For the past few days, there is a worry that I might simply be believing illusory thoughts to be the truth again.

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Re: Know 1 - I have had glimpses but somehow have managed to cover them over again

Postby Anastacia42 » Sun Jul 19, 2020 1:43 pm

Good morning!
there seems to be a lot of doubt, confusion and worry that what is experience and might simply be another level of deception of self-talk/thinking.
Remember, Actual or Direct Experience is ONLY:

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation not emotions - emotions are body sensations with content of thought, a story about the sensation)
Tasting
Smelling
Thought Arising (but NOT content of thought, these are made-up stories that had to be taught to us)


Are doubt, confusion & worry Actual Experience? Or only thought content?

Keep this VERY simple. The list above is your guide.
when the sentences started with "I am" there was a longer and more detailed explanation.
Yes. When believing the content of thought, the story, of some made up "I" It gets very confusing and lots of words show up trying to justify something that does not exist. In fact, it is safe to say that if there are lots of words or doubt and confusion, then that is not Actual Experience. Can you see this?

there might be a feeling of awareness or knowing
Good! Yes. See how simple it is when you stay out of the content of thought?
it is a struggle to put anything experienced accurately and succinctly into words.
Again, KEEP IT SIMPLE.
The difference in the body comes from frustration in my inability to express myself in written form. For the past few days, there is a worry that I might simply be believing illusory thoughts to be the truth again.
The question asks only for body sensations, such as tense/relaxed, tight/loose, heavy/light, hot/cold. ONLY things bodies FEEL .

I remind you again that we do not care at all about thinking here. Stop writing your thoughts. Just stop. That is what is confusing you & it always will!

Write ONLY SEEING, HEARING, FEELINGS that your body feels (not emotions, those are Sensation plus a story. content of thought), SMELLING, TASTING and the FACT that a THOUGHT CAME UP, but do not answer with the content of that thought - it is meaningless.


Review Colored Socks, please, before your next answers.


Okay. I expect this next exercise may be difficult for you. Write something about it here every day, please.


Finding the Gap

This exercise has a dual purpose. Firstly, to become aware of each and every though as they appear. Secondly, the careful looking for the gap is an example of how carefully to look when looking for the ‘separate self’.

Here is a step-by-step description of how to look at thoughts. First thing is to sit for at least 10-15 minutes quietly somewhere, several times throughout your day.

Close your eyes and just notice thoughts. Don’t engage with any thought, just notice them.

1. Notice the current thought that is present.

Like when you sit observing the body, a thought might arise “this is my feet” or “here is a pain” or “my breathing is too quick” or “I am bored with this exercise” or “I have better things to do” or any sorts of thoughts.

2. This thought will pass and another thought will come. So just observe this thought passing.

3. Then wait for the next thought to come.

4. When the next thought is present, just notice it, and see how it passes.

5. Then wait for the next thought to come.

6. Repeat #4 and #5 many-many times.

Between the 2 thoughts there is a gap. It can be very short or subtle, just a second or a few seconds before the next thought come in.

This is how to look at thoughts:

Looking how they come and go, and

Observing the short gap between them. Noticing how the current thought is passing.

And waiting for the next thought to come.

Please do the following exercise:

Throughout your waking day, try to observe the gap between thoughts as often as possible. It can be done by noticing that ‘thinking’ is happening right now, then stop and just simply wait for the next thought to come. In the ‘waiting’ there is a gap between two thoughts.


Write here every day how it is going.


Before you start, watch this video, please:

https://youtu.be/wyNwhK2Ur1c

Loving,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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First day watching thoughts

Postby Know1 » Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:19 pm

Before you start, watch this video, please:
Done.
Please do the following exercise:

Throughout your waking day, try to observe the gap between thoughts as often as possible. It can be done by noticing that ‘thinking’ is happening right now, then stop and just simply wait for the next thought to come. In the ‘waiting’ there is a gap between two thoughts.
Tried this multiple times today.

No gaps noticed. There seems to be at anytime a minimum of at least three concurrent streams of thought that I can observe. When one stream changes like a daydream it is as if I can see down to the next level of inner dialogue narrating everything, below this, seems to be what I would describe as an intuitive situational awareness that is recognising my surroundings. These all seemed to overlap and change at different times, so there was never any gap that I noticed today.

I will try again tomorrow.

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Re: Know 1 - I have had glimpses but somehow have managed to cover them over again

Postby Anastacia42 » Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:22 pm

Hi David,

Yes, please continue to try that exercise. I know it may be frustrating and I imagine slowing down like that can be irritating. It is for me, as well. If you don't have any success with it tomorrow, we'll move on to another exercise.

In a system, I don't really use, called the Enneagram, I'm a 7 - always multi-tasking. I'm also faster paced than some people. Not quite as fast as say, Jim Carey, but quick. However, if Jim Carey can see no self, any fast paced multi-tasker can! There are some YouTube videos where he talks about his own awakening.

Stay with it. Be patient with yourself. And see what you can do to let the flow go on without some "David," just an Awareness, not a "self."

Much love,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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Update for second and third day of looking for gaps in thoughts

Postby Know1 » Wed Jul 22, 2020 4:39 pm

Just a short update.

I have spent a few hours for the past two days in different situations to see if this made things any easier.

Still no gaps in the raging river of thought yet.

I will continue.

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Re: Know 1 - I have had glimpses but somehow have managed to cover them over again

Postby Anastacia42 » Wed Jul 22, 2020 5:34 pm

Hi David,

No, let's drop that one for now. It will only become more frustrating and that isn't helpful. Remember, you have to be relaxed to SEE.

By the way, let's look at this thing called "ego."

We didn't have some thing called an "ego" until a cigar smoking cocaine addict in Austria labeled it. An "ego" can no more be found than a "self." Can you see, hear, feel (in the body), taste or smell an "ego?"

And, your favorite: if I were there, would I be able to see it with you?


Yes, thoughts ABOUT ego arise, but the content of that thought is made up. When you LOOK do you find anything there?


Remember, Actual or Direct Experience is ONLY:

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation not emotions - emotions are body sensations with content of thought, a story about the sensation)
Tasting
Smelling
Thought Arising (but NOT content of thought, these are made-up stories that had to be taught to us)


Here is a new exercise to try:

Actual/Direct Experience - Apple

Have a look at an apple. If you have a ‘real’ apple, you can use it for this exercise. Having a "real" apple (or other fruit) is recommended. Or you can Google pictures of apples on the web.

When looking at an apple, there's colour; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."
What is known for sure? Colour is known and thoughts are known.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?

Actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only more thought. Actual experience is sound, thought, colour, smell, taste, sensation.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?


While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in actual experience.

This is what is meant by ‘looking in actual experience ‘. What you know for sure, and, is always here.

Taste labelled ‘apple’ is known
Colour labelled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labelled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labelled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known

However, is an apple actually known?

You're doing fine. Just relax and LOOK.

Loving,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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Stacy, I appreciate your patience.

Postby Know1 » Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:27 pm

Stacy, I appreciate your patience.

I've spent hours re-reading, going over everything we have discussed together. Three times I have totally re-written my response to your last entry, and it is still rubbish.

I am struggling so much with just the writing; I can't just be with content. Trying to write is simply bringing me more into my mind.

Stacy, I am just going to leave LU alone for a while.

This has been very useful, especially you illuminating me to the fact that I thought was operating in a real level of thinking.

If it's ok, I would really love if anything comes up I could share it with you, and hopefully, you could point me in a different direction.


Again thank you.

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Re: Know 1 - I have had glimpses but somehow have managed to cover them over again

Postby Anastacia42 » Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:40 pm

Hi David,

Yes, I've agreed to guide you and as long as I'm available at the time, I will be happy to answer your questions here. I will strongly prefer continuing on a daily basis, unless you just want me to answer a question or two. Staying focused on your process continually is helpful to keep you going.

It might be helpful to read "Gateless Gatecrashers" and "Liberation Unleashed," which are found under the Books tab above.

https://www.liberationunleashed.com/books/

Also, check out our other Resources, such as Videos and Articles.

It's been a pleasure. Remember "a comfortable sense of leisure is essential." Relax. Straining will keep you from SEEING.

Loving,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris


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