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Re: Pathless path

Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 2:43 am
by Anastacia42
Hi Pascal,

I'm having trouble finding "Where is I?" also. I've never liked how those are named. There is a folder with transcripts & I found it there. It's 12 pages.

I may send a shorter version for you. It's very similar to what you're already LOOKING for.

Just keep LOOKING for the place where your butt ends & your chair begins. Again, it's the looking that matters.

Do you have any questions?


Loving,

Re: Pathless path

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:43 pm
by wangchuk
Hi Stacy,

I’ve read the transcript and did the exercises. And I’m doing the butt-exercise whenever I remember ;) When I do it there’s usually a sense of oneness that arises after a little while. It’s like being held in a field or fabric of energy or like being surrounded by an invisible substance that permeates everything, like being in water while also being made out of water at the same time.

But there are also times when I seem to be too identified with other things or having too many thoughts about the future, problems or all the things I need to get done and solve, where it seems not possible to relax and let go enough in order to feel or experience this sense or state of interconnectedness, flow and oneness.

Am I seeing this right or am I not seeing clearly?

Love
P

Re: Pathless path

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:01 pm
by Anastacia42
You're doing perfectly well.

These are going to continue to alternate. Times when you're very clear and times when you're not. This could go on for years.

Seeing that there is no self is a process. It is only a first step. Then we need to examine or release beliefs that were founded on that "self" and that we eventually find no longer true.

I will give you another exercise to do soon. I'm between work and home right now.

Loving,

Re: Pathless path

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:03 am
by Anastacia42
Okay...

I'm curious. Did any of the recordings prompt the oceanic feeling you described from the "butt" exercise? It's okay if not. but that's what they are also designed to point you to, a recognition of no self.
I'm curious to see whether LU can help me permanently lock into the true identity beyond the limited sense of self.
So, I'm providing many pointers, tools for LOOKING that you can use every time your thinking mistakenly informs you that there is a self. There are a few more stories we do explore here.

Here's another aspect of this to explore:

Palm Flipping Exercise

1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.

2. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.

Watch like a hawk.

Don't go to thoughts – examine your direct experience.

Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:

How is the movement controlled?

Does a thought control it?

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

How is the decision made to turn the hand over?

Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.

Who or what chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

Reply with what is found.


Loving

Re: Pathless path

Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:12 am
by wangchuk
Hi Stacy,

as I was reading the transcripts made it a bit more difficult to follow as it wasn’t always clear who said what and not as easy to follow the exercises. But there were moments of looking for the „I“ where it felt like I was reaching out, or more accurately in, and not finding anything to hold on to. Like trying to grab air or just a reaching out that continues indefinitely. And a sense of empty openness that came with it.

Thanks for the exercise. I’ve done this one before. I think out of the PDF you’ve sent me. Here is what I’ve found this time:
How is the movement controlled?
I don’t know. It seems to just happen.
Does a thought control it?
No, the thoughts about the movement seem to be added to what is happening, but not initiating it.
Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
I don’t find one.
How is the decision made to turn the hand over?
I don’t know.
Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.
As I’ve said: it seems that the thoughts are happening on their own, independent from the movement. They can coincide with the movement or go against it, but they don’t seem to influence the turning itself.
Who or what chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?
I don’t know. It just happened.
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?
No. Thinking about this is a bit confusing, because logically there must be something that’s controlling the movement, but it’s the not the thinking and there’s no „controller“ to be found. It’s quite funny and paradoxical to discover this. Also there’s a sense of release that comes with it. Like a relaxation I feel in the body and especially in my shoulders. Maybe everything is just happening by itself…

Loving
P

Re: Pathless path

Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:11 pm
by Anastacia42
Good morning!

Yes, reading the meditation transcripts is different from listening. The transcripts are just there to help you in case you can't hear the recordings clearly.
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?
No. Thinking about this is a bit confusing, because logically there must be something that’s controlling the movement, but it’s the not the thinking and there’s no „controller“ to be found. It’s quite funny and paradoxical to discover this. Also there’s a sense of release that comes with it. Like a relaxation I feel in the body and especially in my shoulders. Maybe everything is just happening by itself…
I have to laugh a little. Yes, thinking is always confusing. Reality isn't found there. :)

Right! Why "must" there be something controlling the movement? Only thought says there must be. When you imagine movement happening on its own, without a controller, we relax. Why is that?

Yes, the release and relaxation is what we see very time we notice what is true about it and the stress of the lies/stories is seen through. We let go. We relax.

Remember, I was given one exercise and one exercise only when I was guided here. I did the same thing for about 3 months until one day seeing.

Which exercise that you have done seems to bring you closes to the relaxation of seeing? I suggest you repeat that one for a bit, giving this your attention every day, posting every day. There is a reason we ask you how willing you are on a scale of 1 - 10 to question beliefs about self. Anything less than about an 8 and you won't have the determination that this requires.


Loving,

Re: Pathless path

Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:12 am
by wangchuk
Hi Stacy,
Why is that?
If I imagine movement happening on its own, there is immediately a sense of flow and naturalness, of relaxation, non-interference, freedom, openness, expansion. It removes the idea of a seperate „doer“ who is responsible for his deeds and can do things wrong or interfere with the natural movement of the whole, the natural movement that emerges from the interplay of all the different parts involved.
Which exercise that you have done seems to bring you closes to the relaxation of seeing?
I think it was the butt-exercise. So, I’ll continue with that.

When doing it just now after a guided meditation by Mooji it started to feel again like my bottom had fallen out and opened up to an open emptiness. This sense of no clear boundaries and a permeability and openness spread with my attention to other parts of the body. Where I felt the most solidity and a sense of pressure and contraction was in my head. In the end it felt like my body was almost dissolved with only my head still being a solid ball of condensed sensation floating in space…

Loving
P

Re: Pathless path

Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 7:55 am
by wangchuk
Hi Stacy,

I’ve just done the butt-exercise again. It takes a little while to kind of ease into it, like a softening or thawing, where I just stay with my attention in the butt area, the back of my legs and my back. I also have to ignore what my inner visual memory is telling me. I seem to have a pretty strong visual-mental self-image of my body that is suggesting that I have clear boundaries. And this self-image interferes with my direct experience of just sensing in which there are no clear boundaries. So, if I ignore the self-image and stay with my direct experience there is a relaxation and opening up and out that takes place. It starts to feel expansive and open.

Does that sound accurate to you and like I am doing this right?

Loving
P

Re: Pathless path

Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 4:03 pm
by Anastacia42
Good morning,
just sensing in which there are no clear boundaries.
Yes, that's a lot of thinking & explaining , but yes.

You might LOOK this way:

Explore ‘Sense of Self’

Let’s say that you have lost your keys and you swear that you left them in your coat. You go to look and check all the pockets - the keys are not there. You swear they must be as that was the last place you remember them. You have a vivid memory of putting them there after you left the house. But when you check they are not there. At this point you can keep believing that the keys are in your pocket, or you can admit you were mistaken.

This is just like that. You may see clearly that the self is an illusion but still feel a sense of self - just like the keys. But feeling something to be true and seeing that it is or is not is different. This is why we may find ourselves coming back to your expectations at the start and at the end.

Now, I’d like to ask you to explore this SENSE of self very-very thoroughly. Not by thinking about it, but by FEELING it. Keep the focus of attention on the sense of self and inquire:

Does the sense of self have a location?

Does the sense of self have a shape or a size?

Does the sense of self say or communicate anything?

If the answer is yes, how does the sense do this exactly?

Does the sense of self have any characteristics or attributes?

What is the sense of self ‘made of’? An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation? Thought?


What is found?

Loving,

Re: Pathless path

Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 11:53 pm
by wangchuk
Hi Stacy,

I’ve got distracted again by the business of my life and traveling to a different city for work and back.
But here is what I found:
Does the sense of self have a location?
I can’t find a clearly defined location, but a vague one: it’s in my upper body, especially my chest and my head. If I shift my attention to my legs or hands, it feels like that also belongs to my sense of self. If I shift my attention to the other side of the room, it feels like that doesn’t belong to my sense of self.
Does the sense of self have a shape or a size?
At first it feels like this sense of self has the shape and size of my body. Then, when I zoom in on it, like moving to the center of it, the sense of self expands and becomes infinite, to the point where it’s everywhere and nowhere. Here it’s shapeless, centerless, infinite and spacious.
Does the sense of self say or communicate anything?
No
Does the sense of self have any characteristics or attributes?
It’s empty, full and all-pervasive. It’s not a thing, so it doesn’t have any characteristics or attributes.
What is the sense of self ‘made of’? An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation? Thought?
It’s „made of“ emptiness, openness, wholeness, oneness.
And there is a sense of presence, of isness that comes with it, a subtle sense of joy, of wonder, of beingness, a lightness. :)

Loving
P

Re: Pathless path

Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:42 pm
by wangchuk
Hi Stacy,

I enjoy this investigation of this sense of self.
So, here’s what’s found today:
Does the sense of self have a location?
It’s hard to pin-point. There’s not a definite, well-defined location. It’s a bit diffuse. But it feels like it’s located somewhere behind my eyes and in my chest area.
Does the sense of self have a shape or a size?
Not really. It feels like it is at the same time infinitely small and infinitely large.
It doesn’t have any shape – it could be the tiniest dot with no expansion at all or the whole universe.
Does the sense of self say or communicate anything?
No
Does the sense of self have any characteristics or attributes?
No
What is the sense of self ‘made of’? An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation? Thought?
A sense of being, presence, openness, joy.

Much love
P

Re: Pathless path

Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:46 am
by Anastacia42
Good evening & welcome back,

Remember, Colored Socks?

Remember, replying only with Actual/Direct Experience?

What 6 things are defined as Actual Experience? Please list them.

There is Awareness. yes, but does that indicate a separate self?

Now review the exercise, with these firmly in mind. Be sure to stay relaxed.



Loving,

Re: Pathless path

Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:44 am
by wangchuk
Hi Stacy!
Remember, Colored Socks?
Yes
Remember, replying only with Actual/Direct Experience?
Yes
What 6 things are defined as Actual Experience? Please list them.
Let me think (😂): seeing (colors and shapes), hearing (sounds), sensations, smelling, tasting, thoughts arising
There is Awareness. yes, but does that indicate a separate self?
No
Now review the exercise, with these firmly in mind. Be sure to stay relaxed.
Ok
Does the sense of self have a location?
I can’t tell
Does the sense of self have a shape or a size?
I don’t know, because I can’t find it
Does the sense of self say or communicate anything?
A thought arises that says „me“
If the answer is yes, how does the sense do this exactly?
„It“ doesn’t do it, it’s just thoughts arising
Does the sense of self have any characteristics or attributes?
I don’t know, because I can’t find it
What is the sense of self ‘made of’? An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation? Thought?
This „me“ thought is the only thing I can actually find

Love
P

Re: Pathless path

Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:33 am
by Anastacia42
Hi Pascal,
Let me think (😂):
Funny.
Does the sense of self have a location?
I can’t tell
Does the sense of self have a shape or a size?
I don’t know, because I can’t find it
If you can't find it, what does that tell you about whether sense of self has a location?

For comparison, do little green alien beings have a location? Does Santa Claus have a location?

LOOK & tell me - do you see anything in Actual Experience?

Relax & remember that it's act of looking that matters, not correct answers.


Loving

Re: Pathless path

Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:41 am
by wangchuk
Hi Stacy
If you can't find it, what does that tell you about whether sense of self has a location?
Going on present evidence of my direct experience it tells me that it has no location.
For comparison, do little green alien beings have a location? Does Santa Claus have a location?
No
LOOK & tell me - do you see anything in Actual Experience?
I don’t see a sense of self with a location. There are sensations, sounds, color, shapes, taste, etc. but no inside or outside, self or other. With my eyes closed it’s even more obvious that there is no difference or separation between sounds appearing in awareness, a bodily sensation, a thought, … It’s very peaceful and blissful to rest like this.

Loving
P