Truth Seeker

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Anastacia42
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Re: Truth Seeker

Postby Anastacia42 » Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:16 pm

Oh, Kyleen!

That is so beautiful. Yes! Thank you for sharing that. You're welcome. You're welcome. You're welcome!

Here are the final questions we ask you to answer. Be clear and concise. Use the Quote function for every part, so that others can clearly see what part you are answering.


1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. (Note: mention all 5 and describe each one.)

What makes things happen?

How does it work?

What are you responsible for?

Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?


Loving,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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Kyleen17
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Re: Truth Seeker

Postby Kyleen17 » Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:53 pm

These are the final questions? I was hoping we could explore the Time and Memory questions because I’m not sure where I stand with those. The no-self I got.

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Anastacia42
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Re: Truth Seeker

Postby Anastacia42 » Sat Jul 04, 2020 3:22 pm

Yes, good morning. Those are the final questions. But let's go on to the TIme & Memory exercises first.


Time Exercise

There is a general assumption that there is linear time that started (if started at all) somewhere very far in the past and advances to the distant future. The present moment (now) is considered to be a very small fragment of time, or an event that is moving forward on a linear line, coming from the past and advancing to the future.

But is there an experience of the ’now’ moving along the line of time?

Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next?

Is there any actual or direct experience of one event following another?

How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?

Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began?

How long does the ‘now’ last?

Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?

When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?

What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?

So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?


Please answer each question one at a time using the Quote function for each piece.

Loving,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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Kyleen17
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Re: Truth Seeker

Postby Kyleen17 » Sat Jul 04, 2020 3:49 pm

Hi good morning I was looking forward to ur response! I’m not sure I understand the questions/concepts on time.
But is there an experience of the ’now’ moving along the line of time
?
As I sit here and hear noises and see objects in front of me it seems as if it is just happening, but the concept of time moving along is a thought. I hope I’m coming across clear Bc I feel like I’m missing something with the whole time or space thing. When we first started talking about no-self I explained to you how I understood that logically but haven’t experienced it yet. That’s where I’m at with time. The concept that time is an illusion rings true for me but not fully understood so I hope there is not any confusion in my answers.
Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next?
Yes and no. For example when I get up to walk somewhere the experience is one foot and then another like one movement of the body to me to another movement of the body. If u could explain a little more in detail please do. I’m off here I feel and need a nudge in the other direction. Can u do that before I answer any more questions? I don’t want to sound repitive.

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Anastacia42
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Re: Truth Seeker

Postby Anastacia42 » Sat Jul 04, 2020 8:12 pm

Hi Kyleen

1st, the site is having some technical problems and Q can't get in just wait. It has been reported.

The best thing to do is to keep this exercise of mine throughout the day and watch very closely how time seems in light of these questions. Just keep looking at the questions and keep looking at what is real seeing hearing feeling tasting touching.

Is there something that you can touch with your senses that is time? Or is it just a story, a thought arising with the content of thought that we made up?

Loving
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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Anastacia42
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Re: Truth Seeker

Postby Anastacia42 » Sun Jul 05, 2020 2:22 pm

Good morning!

Is it becoming clearer as you look?

Loving
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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Kyleen17
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Re: Truth Seeker

Postby Kyleen17 » Sun Jul 05, 2020 6:10 pm

Is it becoming clearer as you look?
Still looking...

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Kyleen17
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Re: Truth Seeker

Postby Kyleen17 » Sun Jul 05, 2020 6:39 pm

But is there an experience of the ’now’ moving along the line of time?
No it remains the same. No matter what “time” of the day I look it is still there. Neutral.
Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next?
no it’s steady,constant. There is no story just experience
Is there any actual or direct experience of one event following another?
just my attention is moving from one sense to another. First I hear noises, then move my attention to seeing, ect....
How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?
it doesn’t feel likd it is moving at all,thoughts are coming and going that is the only internal movement I’m noticing
Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began?
No Bc I can’t find when it stopped. Under the thoughts it’s always there
How long does the ‘now’ last?
idk if this right but in my experience the now goes just as fast as it came.
What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?
images in my head, kinda like memories which aren’t real Bc I can’t touch them. This is where I tend to get a little confused with the “past” thing Bc I know it’s not real but how do u live a sane life and not have a past?
So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?
It’s all thoughts about time but isn’t time still real in a sense? We experience things on a linear level, one experience after another?

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Kyleen17
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Re: Truth Seeker

Postby Kyleen17 » Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:04 pm

As for the fear? Stare it down. See what's behind it. Anything?
Just did the fear meditation video. There is awareness behind it but I don’t exactly know what it is protecting. It dissolved a little but I wasn’t able to get completely behind it.

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Anastacia42
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Re: Truth Seeker

Postby Anastacia42 » Sun Jul 05, 2020 9:37 pm

Hi Kyleen

Note to both of us that we did some text chat before this post.

You watched Ilona's video on fear & found nothing behind it. Just Awareness.

Let's move on to a memory exercise & see if that helps about the past.

Memory Exercise

Almost everybody believes that a memory thought is referring to something that has happened. That a memory thought is a different thought than a non-memory thought.

Please don’t go to thought explanations, but just let a memory be there, and look at it.

Look at what is actually going on and not what thoughts say - but what actually is.

What is memory exactly?

What is the memory ‘made of’?

WHEN does the memory appear?

What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘memory’ thought?

How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘memory’ thought refers to something that has happened?

Then, look at a thought about the future.

What is the future thought ‘made of’?

WHEN does the future thought appear?

What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘future’ thought?

How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘future’ thought refers to something that will happen?

Then let’s compare a thought about past and a thought about the future.

What is the EXACT difference between the thoughts about past and future?

If there is difference and how is that difference is known exactly?


See if this further LOOKING helps & we can discuss your questions.

Loving
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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Kyleen17
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Re: Truth Seeker

Postby Kyleen17 » Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:05 pm

What is memory exactly?
A memory is an image with labels and wordless emotions that may come up. Something That was experienced but not experiencing now.
What is the memory ‘made of’?
Mental pictures and beliefs, and my attachment to it makes it seem real.
WHEN does the memory appear?
Memory can appear spontaneously or purposefully directing energy to recall something.
What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘memory’ thought?
There really isn’t a difference except for the memory being something I believe I went through in life. It is all these memories together that seem to help construct my identity.
I would say my labeling of the image is the only difference. ( that was a great day, that memory makes me sad, good/bad)
How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘memory’ thought refers to something that has happened?
There is no definitive proof it happened. I believe it happened so it holds weight for me at times. But my believing it happened is not proof it happened. Wow. It’s almost like I’m putting all my hope and faith into something that is a maybe.
Then, look at a thought about the future.
What is the future thought ‘made of’?
Same thing as memories.
WHEN does the future thought appear
Sporadically or if im purposely thinking of a future event
How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘future’ thought refers to something that will happen?[/quote
It’s not a fact the future thought just my imagination that I either buy into or I don’t.
What is the EXACT difference between the thoughts about past and future?
There isn’t one

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Kyleen17
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Re: Truth Seeker

Postby Kyleen17 » Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:59 pm

Another side note: it seems to be easier to explain where I’m at then answering the questions even though I don’t have a problem doing that. I’ve been up all night looking. In a meditative/contemplative state. I’m not completely there but getting closer. The closer I get to what I will call presence, there is an intense heating up on my skin that scares me. I try to welcome the fear and see behind it. I get glimpses. But then all the obsessive “I” thoughts come back and a sort of lethargy or for lack of better words kicks in. “I shouldn’t be wasting time on this, go do laundry etc...” but the body keeps leading me back to looking. But I can’t stop getting down on myself. I’m feeling confused, I want to relax into it but then I pull back. Do u know about any of this or have gone thru it? Thanks.

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Anastacia42
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Re: Truth Seeker

Postby Anastacia42 » Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:02 pm

That's great, Kyleen. Nearly perfect.

They are merely labeled Thoughts Arising. The fact that the thought arose is real. The content is not.

What about this part quoted below?

Can "make" a thought arise? Can we control whether it's a "good" or "bad" thought? We haven't looked much at that because you reported SEEING and sounded like you also understood some things about the thoughts we label as "decisions."

Let's look at that now.
purposefully directing energy to recall something.

Tell me exactly how you do this "purposeful directing?" Even if it seems that the thought follows your supposed request - why a thought about an apple and not a thought about chewing gum? Exactly how is that decided? Is it something you control 24/7? Or ever?


Try this to help with these ideas of choice, free will, intention and decisions:

Drink Exercise

The aim of the following exercise is to discover whether the function of choice can really be found or confirmed in actual experience. The idea of making ‘choices‘ is a very clear example of a function that we wrongly identify as the basis of our identity.

Here's what’s needed - a chair, a table and two different drinks. Any two drinks you like are okay for this: coffee, tea, milk, water, juices, smoothies, beer, wine, etc.

Preparation - Place the two drinks side by side on the table in front of you, sit comfortably on the chair and mentally label them as drink A and drink B.

Experiment - Finding the function of choice

Sit for a few moments, take a few relaxed breaths and let the dust settle. When you feel ready:

1. Look at drink A and at drink B. Think about their respective qualities, the things you like about them, compare and weigh the pros and cons of each. See if a preference is manifesting for one or the other.

2. Count to 5.

3. Choose one of the drinks. Pick it up and take a sip.

Questions:

Remember that we’re looking for some kind of function, a something, an ‘I’ which is doing the ‘choosing’.

In step 1 when thinking about their respective qualities, did you ‘choose’ the qualities? Or did they kind of appear by themselves? If some preferences manifested, did you ‘choose’ these preferences? Or did they just pop up by themselves?

In step 2 when you counted to 5, if the preferences took the back seat while the numbers took the front seat, did you ‘choose’ this sequence of event? Did you ‘choose’ to shut down the preferences to give way to the counting?

Did you directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Have you seen this function in action?

In step 3 where you made a choice, did you actually witness or directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Did anything arise that announced, ‘I am the chooser’? If so, what does this function look like?

Sometimes we describe this sense of choosing as a 'feeling’: It feels like ‘I’ did the 'choosing’. But the question is, can a feeling ‘choose’? Is it in the nature of a feeling to 'choose’?


As usual, please quote the question and answer below it.

Loving,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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Anastacia42
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Re: Truth Seeker

Postby Anastacia42 » Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:16 pm

Hi Kyleen,

We can do both. Yes.
But I can’t stop getting down on myself. I’m feeling confused, I want to relax into it but then I pull back.
This is all just fear. And yes, relaxation is essential to seeing.

What are you afraid of? Please make a list and post it here.

I posted an exercise at the same time you were telling me about your fears and experiences. Let's handle the fear first. Only do the exercise if it feels comfortable and relaxed. We can come back to it. But DO make the list of what you are afraid of. And I mean on paper. Write it down.

I probably can't get back to this until later this evening. In the meantime, work with the Deep Looking on Ilona's video about your written list of fears. What is behind it? Anything?

Loving,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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Kyleen17
Posts: 61
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Re: Truth Seeker

Postby Kyleen17 » Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:36 am

Yes I did report seeing but I don’t feel like it’s all the way complete. I may be getting hung up on other people’s experiences, I’m still not seeing the laughter. There’s not much lightness. The seeing began but things are not completely unraveling.

What are you afraid of? Please make a list and post it here
Fear of losing more motivation and feeling that life is meaningless
Fear of not being able to connect with others the same way
Fear of loosing my personality
Fear of the unknown, what will happen after


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