Post Awakening

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Krharish
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Post Awakening

Postby Krharish » Fri May 08, 2020 7:15 am

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
It means for me, at this stage of my existence, absence of a fixed form and personality that is built on patterns, memories and having a physical body.

What are you looking for at LU?
Post Awakening pointers and Reminders. Because of the absence of personality nothing sticks mostly but there are still moments when words hurt, fear of death sometimes visits, ocassional identification with a view point.. so i am looking to be in a nourishing environment through the experience of those who have been where i am today

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
There is nothing pre meditated. Whenever a guidance happens spontaneously, it will be exactly the food my being would have needed. I see now that there is a larger intelligence that is now driving this vehicle after the person has largely disappeared.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
It has been a 20 year search across many teachings but a key part of my orientation was through the Armenian mystic Gurdjieff. Post Awakening, i find great fulfillment in Dzogchen writings of Lonchempa. It resonates with the vibration of my current state

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
7

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Vivien
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Location: Australia

Re: Post Awakening

Postby Vivien » Sat May 09, 2020 2:32 am

Hi,

Welcome to Liberation Unleashed. My name is Vivien and I'd be happy to assist you.

This is YOUR inquiry. I will not be giving you new ideas and beliefs; only assisting you in examining and questioning the ones that you already have. We can have a conversation and see where it takes you.

But for this question:
On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
you replied only with 7.
What are the other 3 points reserved for?
Which of your beliefs you are not willing to question? And why?

but there are still moments when words hurt, fear of death sometimes visits, ocassional identification with a view point..
Could you please tell a bit more about this? How does certain words hurting show up? How does fear of death show up?

And you mention occasional identification.
What is it exactly that identifies and with what?

Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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Krharish
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Re: Post Awakening

Postby Krharish » Sun May 10, 2020 10:47 am

Hi Vivien

Thank you for responding. Let me try and respond with the state of being as it is now.

1. On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
you replied only with 7.
What are the other 3 points reserved for?

The response of 7 came from a sense of 'feeling the insides' - rather than a rational enumeration. It came from a space that I dont know all that is to know. It appears to be right now that i sense the edges of my being through arriving at a points of resistance that seem to arise spontaneously, following a mysterious law, as it were. So 3 is reserved for " willing to be surprised".

2. Which of your beliefs you are not willing to question? And why?

The current belief that I hold is that there everything is unfolding perfectly. That seeking or spiritual search is just a play of energies experienced at a certain level of consciousness at various points. Its like running inside a moving bus. That there is beautiful flow that is just so right for me to just float along. That "Knowing" is the ultimate ground of reality. There is no "reason" for all these. It is how perception is right now.

3. but there are still moments when words hurt, fear of death sometimes visits, ocassional identification with a view point..
Could you please tell a bit more about this? How does certain words hurting show up? How does fear of death show up?

Examples of words hurting. I see that in my country we have huge issues with poor and disenfranchised who are struggling in this COVID lockdown or when I see this Islamophobia in my country which always welcomed all races and relgions and made it its own - and when I express my view point and hear views that dont agree, I experience the hurt. Ocassional identification with a view point is work-place related observation where sometimes when I put forth an idea or thought and it is not received or accepted then it brings suffering. Fear of death is a more 'organic experience - where I am convinced with mind, body and emotions that I am going to die in the next hour - but it has always been helpful because each moment then is live with super sensitivity as if extracting every last drop from the juice of existence.

4. And you mention occasional identification.
What is it exactly that identifies and with what?

Identification is experienced as an attachment to a view point(political, social, creative or an idea . There is no entity or self-image perceived that identifies only an experiencing of the attachment - more as a fear of its loss. For me it indicates the limit of my being or sometimes as a karmic residue that is in the process of sublimation or burning away - so it is suffered and fully savored instead of denying it.

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Vivien
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Location: Australia

Re: Post Awakening

Postby Vivien » Sun May 10, 2020 11:15 am

Hi Krharish,

How do you want me to call you? Is Krharish OK, or would you prefer some other name?

I would like to ask you to learn to use the quotation function, so our conversation will be easier to read later for both of us.

So here is the link to a video again how to quote:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660
Let me try and respond with the state of being as it is now.
Thank you for replying for my questions.
I’m not sure what it is that you are looking for exactly, but I can tell you what I can offer you.

I will not be giving you new ideas and beliefs; only assisting you in examining and questioning the ones that you already have.

I’m not going to teach anything, except how to look at the raw, unadulterated experience versus theories, ideas or thoughts about experience and thus investigating the validity of your thoughts and beliefs.

So in essence, this inquiry is about paying attention to and learning to see the difference between the raw experience and our thoughts ABOUT experience.

For this reason, this inquiry is going to be very simple. No intellect is needed. Actually all thinking is a way of seeing what is here, right now, the simplicity of what is.
V: 2. Which of your beliefs you are not willing to question? And why?
K: The current belief that I hold is that there everything is unfolding perfectly. That seeking or spiritual search is just a play of energies experienced at a certain level of consciousness at various points. Its like running inside a moving bus. That there is beautiful flow that is just so right for me to just float along. That "Knowing" is the ultimate ground of reality. There is no "reason" for all these. It is how perception is right now.
Are you saying that this is the belief that you are NOT willing to question and investigate?
There is no entity or self-image perceived that identifies only an experiencing of the attachment
Are you saying that it’s totally clear EXPERIENTIALLY, without any doubt, that there is no self? Or rather it’s an intellectual understanding?

In the moment when there is fear of death, the self is believed to real. Also, when there is attachment, in that moment the self is taken to be something real, and not seen to be only as an illusion.

When there is an identification, in that moment the self is actively believed to be real. Since only the seeming self could identify with anything.

So we can have a look into these to see where and what is the self in the moment when those things happen.

This is what I can offer you. An experiential investigation of reality. What actually is, compared to what we think it is.

Please let me know if this is what you are after.


Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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Krharish
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri May 08, 2020 7:13 am

Re: Post Awakening

Postby Krharish » Sun May 10, 2020 4:17 pm

Vivien, thank you for your energies in offering your response. I shall transcribe what seems to have arisen with as much truthfulness as this moment gives.

How do you want me to call you? Is Krharish OK, or would you prefer some other name?
1.You can call me Harish or KR Harish or any other name that comes to your heart to call me. It is just a designate function so ill know its me being addressed and so will you. If you wish each time you could call me by a different name too.
For this reason, this inquiry is going to be very simple. No intellect is needed. Actually all thinking is a way of seeing what is here, right now, the simplicity of what is.
2. What you share ‘Actually all thinking is a way of seeing what is here, right now, the simplicity of what is’ at this moment resonates with the being. I also wish to add that we could even relinquish this condition. Whatever resonates in your heart, do share. It will just be the food this being needs at the moment of its reception.
Are you saying that this is the belief that you are NOT willing to question and investigate?
3. This is a problem of language as I see it. You see my difficulty is that there is no “one” to question and investigate, unlike the times before my awakening. At this point there is an overall awareness, a field of perceptions into which contents arrive, do their thing and leave the field. Mostly nothing leaves a residue or sticks for long. There is no intention because there is ‘nothing’ to ‘hook’ intention on to. There is no individual will that is personalised. Thus choiceless and intention-less. Each moment energies come and do their thing – I am always Cc’d on the activities so there is a ‘knowing’ always that is continuous. Next moment another set of energies come. The person in that moment is different from the person now especially because memory is not carried forward. All this I call Grace or Benediction because it just arrived one day. It requires no 'holding up' no practice..nothing.
The word ‘belief’ I would assume you convey as something that carries an impression of something that is a notion without validation by a direct perception. This is not the case here. What I described as "beliefs" is the current content of perceptions that seems to reiterate and if something new is revealed I will know only then the degree of openness to the new perception, the new insight. That is what I was wish to convey. That the revelations are unending. Nothing is final truth.
Are you saying that it’s totally clear EXPERIENTIALLY, without any doubt, that there is no self? Or rather it’s an intellectual understanding?
4. It is a direct perception that is spontaneous and without any wish on intention from my side. It has just been getting vivified each day since my awakening in 2016. So again, understanding the difficulty of language, I cannot understand the vibration of your expression “Totally clear experientially without any doubt” – because each moment in its infinite dept is a total clarity without any doubt in the back ground of a deep silence . Then one day there is another dimension that is revealed that is again totally clear experientially, without any doubt. So ‘totally clear experientially’ is infinitely dynamic in its expression at this point. It is not a fixed point.
n the moment when there is fear of death, the self is believed to real. Also, when there is attachment, in that moment the self is taken to be something real, and not seen to be only as an illusion.

When there is an identification, in that moment the self is actively believed to be real. Since only the seeming self could identify with anything.

So we can have a look into these to see where and what is the self in the moment when those things happen.

This is what I can offer you. An experiential investigation of reality. What actually is, compared to what we think it is.

Please let me know if this is what you are after.
5. When you share that “ An experiential investigation of reality. What actually is, compared to what we think it is” it resonates with the wish of the being at this moment. But it feels that we could try something that is a bit more open, not so much like a stated intention('what are you after'). I feel that I cannot conclude that ‘this is what I am after’ because it is possible that some other energy that arrives wishes to participate and could manifest a wish through this mind-body machine . You see, the difficulty is that there is no one fixed person at any given time – every moment has its unique configuration and response at this point in my case.
Like when you share “ In the moment when there is fear of death, the self is believed to real. Also, when there is attachment, in that moment the self is taken to be something real, and not seen to be only as an illusion.

When there is an identification, in that moment the self is actively believed to be real. Since only the seeming self could identify with anything.

So we can have a look into these to see where and what is the self in the moment when those things happen.”

This pointing immediately nourished me when I read it as something of a core wish.
Or Like when you share “ In the moment when there is fear of death, the self is believed to real. Also, when there is attachment, in that moment the self is taken to be something real, and not seen to be only as an illusion.

When there is an identification, in that moment the self is actively believed to be real. Since only the seeming self could identify with anything.

So we can have a look into these to see where and what is the self in the moment when those things happen.”

This pointing immediately brightened a spot when I read it as something of a real and true exploration. Or like when you wrote the words Raw Experience. That touched a part that needed that food. There was a subtle joy in reading those words.

My suggestion therefore will be ‘whatever comes in your heart to share with me, that you feel like a spontaneous sharing’ please do so. It will be the most sacred gift.

Again, only if by naturally arising compassion, if you feel spontaneously evoked to do so.

Once again, in gratitude.

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Vivien
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Location: Australia

Re: Post Awakening

Postby Vivien » Mon May 11, 2020 1:54 am

Hi Harish,
My suggestion therefore will be ‘whatever comes in your heart to share with me, that you feel like a spontaneous sharing’ please do so. It will be the most sacred gift.
I think there is a misunderstanding what this is forum about. Unlike other forums, it’s not about people signing up and having conversations. This forum has a specific, targeted aim. Anyone who signs up is being picked up by a guide, who is helping the seeker to see through the self-illuison. We use direct pointing, where the guide is asking very targeted questions, and the client is using those questions as pointers and investigates their immediate experience.

So it’s not about me sharing with you whatever comes up. It’s not just a loose conversation, but a directed inquiry, YOUR inquiry.

The only aim of the inquiry is to see that there is no self, never was and never will be.

From your replies it seems to me that you are looking for a causal conversation.

Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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Krharish
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri May 08, 2020 7:13 am

Re: Post Awakening

Postby Krharish » Mon May 11, 2020 11:12 am

So be it Vivien.


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