Trying to get it

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nobody5
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Re: Trying to get it

Postby nobody5 » Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:04 am

P.S. There were a translation mistake.. I used the term "dull" instead of dumb, meaning ironically that I didn't see the truth yet. Of course I'm still very eager to see.

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Ilona
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Re: Trying to get it

Postby Ilona » Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:10 am

Hi Nobody5.
I’m here to continue with you. Lovely to meet you!

I read your thread and we can just pick up where you are.
There is no time frame as your process is unique for you. It takes as long as it takes.
Can you sum up, what is it precisely that you are looking for?

Love.

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nobody5
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Re: Trying to get it

Postby nobody5 » Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:37 pm

Hello..!
Thank you very much. Actually, I was afraid to have engaged you for too long 😁🙂

In fact, I want to go deep, get to the core and cut trough all conflicting/disturbing emotions.
Becoming able to take the distance from conceptual mind, I imagine that I would be more free, that I would see my and others emotions much clearer and to be of much better service for the humankind.

Also, one of my aims is to go deep to the level of death, and see what's there, and be able to cope with it. (This is probably another part of the story, but I share it with you to let you understand me better 🙂)
That's almost it 🙂🙂
Thank you very much for accepting me in this incredible virtual place. I don't have words to describe how it's amazing 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🌈

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Ilona
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Re: Trying to get it

Postby Ilona » Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:02 am

Thank you very much for your answer
You are very welcome to be in this place and use what you get from here.

In fact, I want to go deep, get to the core and cut trough all conflicting/disturbing emotions.
What are you expecting here? No more feeling emotions? No more feeling intensity? Feeling free to feel all emotions in their degrees of intensity?
What would be the desired outcome of cutting through emotions?
Explore this and tell me.

Love

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nobody5
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Re: Trying to get it

Postby nobody5 » Thu Oct 15, 2020 2:46 pm

Actually, I can't talk properly about something I didn't experience myself.
I can just say that most teachings, like the Buddhist which I consider highly valuable, because they are based on reasoning and experience, say that most problems come from our clinching to our self and our sense of "I".

Of course I have problems, of course I have conflicting emotions, and I have also the inner urge to "know more", to get to the point and know the ultimate truth.
I'd dive into death, to see what's more profound under our gross daily mind experience(s).

---

My expectations?
I don't know, but probably to be more free from my bad emotions, at least to be able to take the distance and watch them from outside, maybe being able to understand them, and those of other people, better.

Also, if you know the Buddhist concept of relative and absolute truth, yes I probably fantasize of some outcomes, like more calm and compassion, that actually belong to the relative world, which I think is not the topic here.

Concluding (sorry for this long message), I'm familiar with the concept of enlightenment. There are many school and different viewpoints about it, and I don't know how what we are trying to see here relates to that concept.
My opinion is that whether it's a final realization or anything else, it would be an amazing starting point anyway. Then, I'll still have my intelligence to see, think and decide what to do


Sorry for this super long intro, but maybe it could be useful for you to understand what's in my mind now. 🙂

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Ilona
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Re: Trying to get it

Postby Ilona » Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:53 am

Thank you for honesty. Sorry I don’t reply right away, I read all you write and reply when I can. So feel free to use this thread to write as much as you like like. And I will reply with more questions.

Ok, you say you want to be free from bad emotions.
What makes them bad? Let’s examine this.

Freedom lies in experiencing all emotions freely without naming them bad or good. Emotions come to be felt. They are not here to be analysed or understood, they are energy that is here to express. Some emotions are very intense and painful, they too want to express. Trying to get rid of them, wanting them to be gone in any way strengthens the pressure. So here is a video for you about resistance https://youtu.be/NBEn40-pIfs

Don’t wrote you, step by step we will undo all that is in the way to freedom. Firstly let’s clear the way.
Examine resistance. See if you can make friends with it.

Love.

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nobody5
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Re: Trying to get it

Postby nobody5 » Mon Oct 19, 2020 2:32 pm

Thank you, I watched the video, which was beautiful.
after seeing it, I realized that I didn't express well my thougth.

Bad feelings, I uderstand what you mean, even if I don't actualize it that much.. My antidote is much more "sutra way", that is like:
1 - I have to feel that I've done my best, so much of the pain is swept away and
2 - if I didn't, I just do prayers, good actions to counteract the bad karma.
Of course what you say is a different, more "tantric" or "mahamudrish" :-) approach much in sync with some teachings I heard, and it's very beautiful. Of course I'll pin these instructions, and get back to them soon.

That said, I meant much about bad mind habits, that I expect to see more clearly, and to be able to help others better to see.
I.e. I'm lazy, udecided, I have many bad traits that, I suppose, I could see and fix more easily if I was able to see all the picture more clearly.

I don't know if it's realistic, I'm not completely aware about how (if) the "absolute truth" (everything is an illusion, including ourselves) could, if so, affect our "relative world" or truth (or the cycle of karma, good/bad mood, behaviour and tendencies and so on).

I would like to undestand better this aspect.

(P.S. I use some buddhist terminology not to push any religious idea, but just to express things faster.. so please let me know if it's something you're familiar with and that could be useful to understand each other better, or if I'd better express me elsewhere)

Many many thanks :-)

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Ilona
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Re: Trying to get it

Postby Ilona » Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:06 am

Thank you for reply.
Buddhist terminology is fine, but I invite you to share using your own words, how you see it. There are many ways to describe the same and what I’m looking for is authentic, fresh expression. I know that language is very limited and it’s difficult to put what we are looking at in words, so you need to be very precise with words. Cool?

Ok, so when you say that you did your best or that you pray when you think of karma, there is a belief, that there is someone here, that has karma, that is responsible for how life happens and is in its own, dealing with with life, that is happening to you.
Right. The key idea of this forum is that there is no such entity, that is separate from the whole. None as in zero.

There is only the whole, no separate parts that have an individual separate existence.

Is life happening to you? Is there a gap between you and life?
Examine this.
Where is the line between you and life?
Is resisting life part of life happening or is there someone here accepting and resisting life?

How do you see this?

Love.

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nobody5
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Re: Trying to get it

Postby nobody5 » Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:21 pm

Well, ok..
I must clarify that I'll always choose truth over religion hands down.

For this reason, I have to say that whatever terminology I use, the concepts come from reasoning, not from belief, or at least from a combination of both, where the first takes the lead.

Buddhism means "realizationism", so for me using any different term is perfectly fine.

Also, I have to say that centuries of sincere seekers preceded us, people doing exactly what we are doing now.

So the concept that you are implying, that a "whole" does exist on his own, do have a precise school and a name, which I won't linger on.

My point of view of that whatever is the best philosophical view (some say that this is not the ultimate), I'm still living maybe believing, but not seeing, that a separate self do not exist, while you clearly see that, and that's it.

So if you can get me to see that, it would be a great jump.
As said at first, if from there on I'll have more to learn and see, I'll see.

So I'm happy to start this journey 🙂👍🏻

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nobody5
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Re: Trying to get it

Postby nobody5 » Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:27 pm

That said, let's try to respond to your (puzzling) questions..

First, what do you mean with "life"?
All things happening outside?
I don't know.. I think that the content of my mind doesn't go out, so somehow there is a separation.

Also, I reflect that "life" for me is just the part of life that I can experience, see and hear. So there is a solid relationship between the two, internal and external.
I must reflect more.

I try to stay just on one question to try to solve it deeply, one by one.
I'll tell you more tomorrow.
Many thanks

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Ilona
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Re: Trying to get it

Postby Ilona » Fri Oct 23, 2020 7:04 am

Thank you for replying.

What do I mean by life? Is experience that is happening and that includes everything: sense of being alive and knowing of ever changing experiences.

So is there a line between life and me?
Is there inside and outside of life happening?

Focus on the sense of aliveness and close your eyes. Is there a line? How do you perceive a line between me and life, me and the world? Inside outside? Is there such a line at all?

Here is a video for you, it may help to investigate deeper. https://youtu.be/e4MX7T6ZBew

Love.

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nobody5
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Re: Trying to get it

Postby nobody5 » Fri Oct 23, 2020 10:33 pm

Thank you for this video.. This amplify the perspective.

I was reasoning about myself, but actually it excluded the nature itself, as it is.
Yes, feeling a part of a bigger picture put everything in a different perspective and downsize a bit our role, our "ego".

What makes me feel "different" from nature outside of the complexity of human mind and reasoning, that doesn't seem to find any counterpart outside.

After all, animals act just upon the spur of pure instinct, while we can "abstract" ourselves and live in our mind world, at least for a while.

When we are entranced in our thoughts, there are no apparent connection with others, and with nature.
You'll probably prove it wrong, but I can't figure out how, at the moment.

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Ilona
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Re: Trying to get it

Postby Ilona » Sun Oct 25, 2020 7:51 am

Thank you for reply.
It’s very interesting that you can see nature outside, but what about nature inside? You are nature expressing itself as a human form, as thoughts, as feelings, as aliveness. Is there a line that separates nature outside from nature inside? Are there different natures in different forms?

Ok, here is another video for you. https://youtu.be/LXrfQqvwIcU Consider this, connect to your own sense of aliveness, see what you learn, what you notice in your experience. Connection to your own aliveness is the connection to the whole.

Love.

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nobody5
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Re: Trying to get it

Postby nobody5 » Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:09 am

Thank you, this video is exceptionally beautiful.
Actually it reminds me of one thing.

In the past (but I'd say also in the present) I have got quite involved in energy, chi-kung stuff and so on.
There are many teaching for accumulating energy.
But my idea has always been the same: if you create a ball and enlarge it, you could have a big ball, but you'd never reach the infinite or the absolute.
Instead, I have always thought about dissolving yourself, and acting as the Whole.
I have always thought that is should be the way to act with powerful force and wise thoughts.
(There's also a famous Zen story that I remind, and that I link here: https://blog.buddhagroove.com/zen-story-great-waves/ )

I slowly understand that what you teach is different, at least to some extent, to the concept of emptiness of inherent existence which many saints have realized.

But,at this point, I'm curious if the concept expressed above have some validity for you.


Still, it remains for me to be discovered how to identify ourselves with the Whole.

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nobody5
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Re: Trying to get it

Postby nobody5 » Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:18 pm

I mean..
I know it's a bit off topic, I was just curious about what are the implications of this way of thinking.

Apart from that, I can experience what is outside this body, just about the small portion that is directly in contact with it.

What you say, is that I shouldn't locate my mind, but extend it to the limits of everything..
Do you have a practice for that?


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