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Re: Trying to get it

Posted: Fri May 15, 2020 6:25 am
by nobody2see
Does Batman exist? No. You simply know that. Do you have to think about it all the time in order for it to be true? If you don't 'consciously put in the effort', does Batman suddenly become real?
Sometimes there are thoughts about it and sometimes not. Do you control that in any way or does it just happen?

What is 'no-self-awareness'? Either you know that Batman does not exist or you don't - there's no 'seeing it a bit more than yesterday'.

Effort... I feel you! I described it the same way.
The mind wants you to think there is control, but is there? What are you controlling right this moment?
Look at that feeling of control/of making an effort - what secret does it want to keep hidden away from you? Look behind it.

ps.: In the settings you can find an option to get notified via e-mail, maybe this helps.
And please always answer every question. :)

Re: Trying to get it

Posted: Sat May 16, 2020 11:52 pm
by nobody5
I get what you said.. Actually it's what I supposed you should say.
In fact, I thought that if the no-self is a reality, it shouldn't require effort, and no, I (supposedly) shouldn't be thinking about it all the time in order to realize it.. Batman doesn't get real if I miss thinking about it.

Thoughts? Sometimes I can control their direction, sometimes not.. But they're always present, I'm not sure whether I can actually suppress them.. Maybe in some "samadhi" states.. But I get what you're saying and no, at least in the ordinary states I can experience, they're happening regardless of my will.

Effort.. Control..
Actually, I mean control to not let the mind wander into the notion of a inherent self.. At the moment thinking differently requires some attention.
But.. It's probably true.. The effort comes from a resistance more than it comes from a willing to find the solution.
I have to think about that.

Re: Trying to get it

Posted: Sun May 17, 2020 6:40 pm
by nobody2see
Take a close look at resistance and tell me - is it a doing or more like a mechanism?
It is saying 'no' to unpleasance for example. That's perfectly fine, nothing wrong with not liking something.

What would happen if you just allowed resistance to be there? Respect it. It wants to show you something.
Feel it. Welcome it and ask 'what are you protecting?'.

Say yes to it and open the door to all those feelings that have been supressed for such a long time.. hug them, notice them. They are friends.

Life is happening without asking for permission anyway so welcome whatever comes up, including resistance. :)

Re: Trying to get it

Posted: Mon May 18, 2020 9:13 am
by nobody5
After your message the feeling of effort vanished..
It's more peaceful now.
There's a more subtle feeling of things happening (I feel it now.. just few hours before I was driving, and I got even angry.. no peaceful display of things and thoughts whatsoever).
Anyway, as I'm more quiet, this peaceful feeling is new.
How can I get deeper?

P.S. This thing is really, really, really cool

Re: Trying to get it

Posted: Mon May 18, 2020 8:35 pm
by nobody2see
Yeah, this 'thing' is cool. Fresh every time, always new. Sometimes cool, sometimes not. The ever changing flow. Life.

You said that sometimes you can control the direction of thought. How does that look like? Doing or happening?

Re: Trying to get it

Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 8:45 am
by nobody5
Well, I mean this process of investigation is captivating..

Relating to happiness, I don't realize how the state we're searching for would relate to it, if it would free the thoughts and bring about more happiness, or just a kind of a disengagement from everything (in that case, bad things should sting less, I think).

Directing the thoughts...
It's probably the wrong answer, but it seems to me more like a doing.. In fact I could choose one direction or the other, so if it was just a happening, we should say that there's no free will, and that things are already set, before they happens.. It would be quite boring. Isn't it?

Re: Trying to get it

Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 10:24 pm
by nobody2see
Yes, it's great. Glad you like investigating - perfect attitude.

We're not searching for a state. In fact, we're not searching at all - we're looking at what is there right now. Seeing, feeling, tasting ... whatever is going on, we look at it and ask if there's an 'I' doing this. If so, where? How is it perceived?

There are no wrong answers, everything has it's place and often times you'll see what it was good for later on.

Let's look more closely at thought:
Do you know what the next thought will be before it appears?
Choose a number from 1-10. Did you know what number will show up?
Can you stop a thought from appearing?

Re: Trying to get it

Posted: Wed May 20, 2020 3:59 pm
by nobody5
Mmm.. of course I can see a thought only when.. it's thought. If I could anticipate it, it would be itself a thought.
So for the same reason I didn't know which number would have appeared.

Stop a thought..? Well, I can discontinue it, or revert to other subjects..
I can do this, but I can't avoid it to appear on the first stance.

I can take a mind habit, so change the subject of thoughts that spontaneously arise. I can also make the mind more fluid with meditation, so make thoughts less solid and make them disappear easier.

But, at least for now I can't discontinue thoughts to appear in the mind.


I'm thinking about anticipating the thought content.. It's a challenging question, because the next one is: where/how they come from?

I don't know whether that's too philosophical, or is a question to follow, supposedly ending up in a place with no definite answers

Re: Trying to get it

Posted: Thu May 21, 2020 6:56 am
by nobody2see
Good work. And great question, so let‘s investigate - where do thoughts come from?
Wait for the next thought - where does it come from? Where does it go?

Re: Trying to get it

Posted: Sun May 24, 2020 12:23 am
by nobody5
Difficult question, that risk to get to nowhere..
All can I say is thoughts could come from previous thoughts, or external input..
Maybe a net of imprints dictate my choices, that seems free, but are in fact grossly conditioned

That could be (it is in fact) a conceptual reply.. Because if I really saw it, I should be free from those conditioning

Anyway, at least I can feel that the sense of self has lowered a bit

Re: Trying to get it

Posted: Sun May 24, 2020 12:58 pm
by nobody2see
Looking is easy. What’s the weather? You can think about it, google it or just look for yourself. You can only be sure that it’s raining if you check, right?

For the moment don’t listen to thoughts. They say ‘it’s hard, I cannot see it’ - does not matter what they say.
Watch them and tell me, does one thought come from another? Do they come in bunches, one thought at a time or in a row? Is there something that contains thoughts? Do you know what thought comes before it arrives? What is in between them?

Re: Trying to get it

Posted: Tue May 26, 2020 8:28 am
by nobody5
Sorry for the delay, I had to reflect on your questions..
Some of them appears to me like koans that require years of meditation to reply..
But I'll try my best

Watch them and tell me, does one thought come from another?
-it seems so. It seems to be a space between one and another.. But I don't think this is absence of thoughts.
It seems more like the mind organizing the next thought, which will be soon just identified. Like Windows loading the program, sometimes there's just a feeling (or even not), which will be after named more precisely as a mental topic.

Do they come in bunches, one thought at a time or in a row?
-difficult question: they seem to be interconnected, one influencing the other and creating a "personality"which will itself influence the content of thoughts
At the same time, anger and happiness can't be thought together.
So my guess is that all the three are true: one thought at a time, but each one "coloured" by others, so in a sense they could be also considered "a bunch".


Is there something that contains thoughts?
-this is really cool 👍🏻. It seems to me that there's no container. Thoughts come as spare parts. My idea is that the "container" feeling comes from the "color" of other interconnected thoughts, which is shared among most of them, creating a kind of "personality" or coherence or "I" feeling.
Supercool question... You made me make reasoning in the nature of mind and ourselves that I had never done before!

Do you know what thought comes before it arrives?
What is in between them?
-I made my guess above.. I think that mind always moves.. Sometimes we identify a thought, sometimes the mind is in background mode, but it's not still.
For example I notice that before coming the remind of a person, it comes a feeling.. Maybe it was a sunny day's nice breeze, or a cake perfume or whatever
(I notice now that I'm getting into the Proust "madeleine" concept, I have to revise it 😄)

Re: Trying to get it

Posted: Wed May 27, 2020 10:51 am
by nobody2see
I made my guess above.. I think that mind always moves.. Sometimes we identify a thought, sometimes the mind is in background mode, but it's not still.
Thank you for your thoughts about it, but now let’s take a look, how does it actually work? Look until you know. Literally take a look at how thoughts show up. Is there a thinker? Are you making thoughts appear? Does the thought “I” think other thoughts or is it just a thought like the others? Can you think 2 thoughts at one time? Can you say aloud 2 words at the same time?

I ask you to describe your actual experience of the thinking process - we don’t want to interpret or conceptualise. Don’t make it to hard, just look. :)

Re: Trying to get it

Posted: Thu May 28, 2020 10:39 pm
by nobody5
Can you think 2 thoughts at one time? Can you say aloud 2 words at the same time?
These are the easiest.. No.
Does the thought “I” think other thoughts or is it just a thought like the others?
Interesting point of view. Yes, it could be just a thought
Are you making thoughts appear?
This.. When I'm calm and thoughts appear spontaneously, I could say that they arise by themselves..
But, for example, if I have to send an email, it seems to me that there's some willingness. "Someone" created this thought and action
I can't see yet an automatic/self-deploying process in that, even if it's probably wrong.

Let's say: now I have to go to the grocery store to buy milk. How could it be a process without any willingness
(with self or not)..?
I still link the "I will" thought to a kind of self of a willful entity (whether autonomous, or made of parts) or process

Re: Trying to get it

Posted: Fri May 29, 2020 11:22 pm
by nobody2see
Interesting point of view. Yes, it could be just a thought
A little mind game. If all thoughts vanished for a minute. There are none left. Not a single one. Would there still be an “I”?

What is this “I” exactly? Can you feel it? Taste it? Touch it? See, smell or hear it?
Remember... no thoughts are there.

Is there an “I” without thought? Are you still here without the “I” thought?