Discovery

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Guivs
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Joined: Sat May 02, 2020 6:32 am

Discovery

Postby Guivs » Sat May 02, 2020 6:34 am

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I understand by this that LU will help us challenge preconceived beliefs and ideas we have about ourselves.

What are you looking for at LU?
At LU, I’m looking for ways to challenge any assumptions I may have (and I have many) in order to see the truth about myself. By registering at LU, I would love to be able to investigate more precisely and look for the answer to the question “who am I ?”. I hope to leave no stones unturned and be guided so that I do not take any idea from granted, even if it comes from spiritual texts.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I expect an honest and open conversation that could help me challenge beliefs that I did not even consider as such. I expect this to be a place where I could discuss the experiences I’m going through with someone that could help me ask the right questions and look for it in the most ‘honest/scientific’ way.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I’ve been meditating for roughly 7 years and been pretty serious about it in the last few months. I have had glimpses (in meditation) of the ‘I’ being a thought that repeats itself very frequently, but it seems I still have to learn about it.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10

Bananafish
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Re: Discovery

Postby Bananafish » Sat May 02, 2020 9:06 am

Hi Guivs. :) Welcome to LU.

My name is Bananafish, one of the guides in this forum.
I'd be more than glad to help you!


Thank you for your intro; as I read, I found that you think you
have many "assumptions" that hinders the seeing of the truth about yourself.

What are the assumptions, and and how do they hinder the seeing?


Also, please tell whether seeing the truth about yourself is your primary goal (i.e. and end in
itself) or you have other goals to which the seeing is a means.


Looking forward to your reply!

Bananafish
I'm available for Skype or Zoom face to face conversation. Drop me a line and we could arrange
the date.
Email: swinganova@hotmail.co.jp
Website: https://en.modernkoanproject.com

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Guivs
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Joined: Sat May 02, 2020 6:32 am

Re: Discovery

Postby Guivs » Sat May 02, 2020 11:34 am


Hi Guivs. :) Welcome to LU.

My name is Bananafish, one of the guides in this forum.
I'd be more than glad to help you!

Thanks ! Nice to meet you. :)
I found that you think you
have many "assumptions" that hinders the seeing of the truth about yourself.

What are the assumptions, and and how do they hinder the seeing?

When I look at it in my experience, experience is always happening. Then, thoughts of an "experiencer" appear really fast, I believe them, and it makes it 'my experience'. This arises really quickly. For instance, if I just observe my direct experience now, there is an experience (sound, seeing, sensations). Directly afterwards (almost at the same time), there is a thought that comes up saying that I'm "here" experiencing this and it is difficult for me not to believe it. Also, thoughts appear and describe that experience (the sound I'm hearing is a bird, for instance). Sometimes, in meditation, these thoughts are seen as 'just' thoughts, but most of the time, this is not recognised. Then, when I'm off the cushion, I make some assumption of that experience and try to 'reconstruct' the experience of "just hearing, just feeling".

Also, please tell whether seeing the truth about yourself is your primary goal (i.e. and end in
itself) or you have other goals to which the seeing is a means.

Absolutely, seeing the truth about myself is the most important goal I have. I'm kind of tired of playing games with myself and trying to use the knowledge I've gathered in order to find the truth. I want to look in the most direct way and see the truth, even if it makes me look and challenge ideas I've hold dear. At the same time, there is a sense of being scared of what I may find. (It might be the reason why I rely on concepts and knowledge in order to find the truth, but I'm just speculating here.)
If I'm being totally honest, there is often a thought that pops up saying that it hopes to benefit from this, but I'm looking to find the truth no matter how ordinary or extraordinary it might be.

Thanks again for the guidance !

Guillaume

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Guivs
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Re: Discovery

Postby Guivs » Sun May 03, 2020 5:27 pm

Hello,

I did some looking today also.

Actually, what I said yesterday seems not quite accurate anymore.
there is a thought that comes up saying that I'm "here" experiencing this and it is difficult for me not to believe it.
Actually, the "me" that believes it is also a thought. Kind of funny to see it.
Also, assumptions such as "I am here", "I am a guy" and so on are also thoughts that construct the thought of "me". They are not to get rid off, it seems, because they are not mine. They have their place for this constructed identity that is thought of as self.

Some sense of relaxation and ease is taking place now.

Bananafish
Posts: 3636
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:29 pm
Location: Japan
Contact:

Re: Discovery

Postby Bananafish » Tue May 05, 2020 11:49 am

Hi Guillaume! Nice to meet you. :)

Sorry for the late reply ... seems like the post notification system
didn't work. I'll write again ASAP.


Warm wishes,

Kento
I'm available for Skype or Zoom face to face conversation. Drop me a line and we could arrange
the date.
Email: swinganova@hotmail.co.jp
Website: https://en.modernkoanproject.com

Bananafish
Posts: 3636
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:29 pm
Location: Japan
Contact:

Re: Discovery

Postby Bananafish » Tue May 05, 2020 12:00 pm

Hi again. :)

When I look at it in my experience, experience is always happening. Then, thoughts of an "experiencer" appear really fast, I believe them, and it makes it 'my experience'.


Let's have a look at this. Can you sit still for a while and see those thoughts of an "experiencer"
appear? Then, when you believe them please tell where is that "I" that believes in those thoughts.


Please report wha you found out; and remember, you don't have to give an answer
that you think will satisfy me, or something you think is a "right" answer according to your
acquired knowledge. Please be 100% honest when reporting.



Warm wishes,

Kento
I'm available for Skype or Zoom face to face conversation. Drop me a line and we could arrange
the date.
Email: swinganova@hotmail.co.jp
Website: https://en.modernkoanproject.com

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Guivs
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat May 02, 2020 6:32 am

Re: Discovery

Postby Guivs » Wed May 06, 2020 7:22 am

Let's have a look at this. Can you sit still for a while and see those thoughts of an "experiencer"
appear? Then, when you believe them please tell where is that "I" that believes in those thoughts.
Hello,
I looked at it just now. These thoughts of experiencer (« I », « I », « I ») seem to happen at each instant. When I look where the « I » that believes those thoughts is, I sense a center, a point of singularity that seems indestructible. When I try to look closer at what it is, resistance comes up as well as the thought that « I » cannot find out what it is. It would be too easy to stop there, I will carry on the investigation later today...

Bananafish
Posts: 3636
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:29 pm
Location: Japan
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Re: Discovery

Postby Bananafish » Wed May 06, 2020 12:17 pm

Hi Guillaume. :)


When I try to look closer at what it is, resistance comes up


Could you elaborate? How is that resistance felt?



Best wishes,

Kento
I'm available for Skype or Zoom face to face conversation. Drop me a line and we could arrange
the date.
Email: swinganova@hotmail.co.jp
Website: https://en.modernkoanproject.com

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Guivs
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat May 02, 2020 6:32 am

Re: Discovery

Postby Guivs » Wed May 06, 2020 9:49 pm

Could you elaborate? How is that resistance felt?
When I looked earlier, it felt like a bunch of tense sensations gathering in the middle... But now that I write about it, why the heck would they have anything to do with “I” ? :D Recognising this gives a sense of relaxation about this...

Bananafish
Posts: 3636
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:29 pm
Location: Japan
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Re: Discovery

Postby Bananafish » Thu May 07, 2020 1:04 am

Hi Guillaume. :)


But now that I write about it, why the heck would they have anything to do with “I” ?


Is that more like an intellectual understanding, or do you feel it's a rather
visceral one?



Warm wishes,

Kento
I'm available for Skype or Zoom face to face conversation. Drop me a line and we could arrange
the date.
Email: swinganova@hotmail.co.jp
Website: https://en.modernkoanproject.com

User avatar
Guivs
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat May 02, 2020 6:32 am

Re: Discovery

Postby Guivs » Thu May 07, 2020 5:44 am

Hello Kento !
Is that more like an intellectual understanding, or do you feel it's a rather
visceral one?
This feels more like a recognition than an intellectual understanding. I mean, there is a subtle release taking place. In a way, nothing has changed and the process of “I-ing” (for the lack of a better word hahah) still takes place most of the time, but there is no doubt in my mind that “I” do not exist. Actually, every time a strong sense of “I-ing” and that identification takes place, “I” then remember most of the time. Found it really funny. In order to make sure I’m not deluding myself (hahah found it hilarious saying that also), I will report back later in the day if you don’t mind. :) It also feels like it is a shift in direction and that it is only the first step in a great journey, but without the same drive by the « I » to attain some special state, just deepening the recognition. As someone that has been involved with meditation and Buddhism for a while, it made me for the first time truly and viscerally (to use your well-chosen word haha) appreciate the teachings of the Buddha.

Bananafish
Posts: 3636
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:29 pm
Location: Japan
Contact:

Re: Discovery

Postby Bananafish » Thu May 07, 2020 9:30 am

Hi Guillaume. :) Your reply made me smile!


In order to make sure I’m not deluding myself (hahah found it hilarious saying that also), I will report back later in the day if you don’t mind. :)


Sure! I'll be looking forward to it!
I'm available for Skype or Zoom face to face conversation. Drop me a line and we could arrange
the date.
Email: swinganova@hotmail.co.jp
Website: https://en.modernkoanproject.com

User avatar
Guivs
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat May 02, 2020 6:32 am

Re: Discovery

Postby Guivs » Fri May 08, 2020 9:37 pm

Hello back Kento !

Hope you’re well!

The past two days have felt ordinary, but with a sense of release. I guess this the best word I could use (release). The trigger for that release comes up every time the I-Ing process gains traction, it seems. Also, thoughts that come up do not seem to have the same pull/attraction. The present seems to take an increasing proportion of daily life. Now, I’m not saying everything is always fine ! Not at all ! Agitation comes up, but then it goes and it has never not been ok to be there in the first place.
Like I said in the last reply, there is a sense that this step is like the very first step in the right direction, where this realisation might deepen based not on effort from self, but on resting where the self is not found. But if it doesn’t, oh well, how could I complain !? :D

Bananafish
Posts: 3636
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:29 pm
Location: Japan
Contact:

Re: Discovery

Postby Bananafish » Sat May 09, 2020 2:30 am

Welcome back, Guillaume. :)

Great to hear that!


Would you say that you are clear that you've seen through the illusion of separate entity called
self?


Do you have anything you want to inquire further?


Warm wishes,

Kento
I'm available for Skype or Zoom face to face conversation. Drop me a line and we could arrange
the date.
Email: swinganova@hotmail.co.jp
Website: https://en.modernkoanproject.com

User avatar
Guivs
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat May 02, 2020 6:32 am

Re: Discovery

Postby Guivs » Sat May 09, 2020 8:48 am

Hello Kento ! :)
How are you doing ?

Would you say that you are clear that you've seen through the illusion of separate entity called
self?
What I would say is this : there is no doubt at all that there is anything called self. Never was there, never will be. Self is a complex process of thoughts, feelings, sensations combined with an "I-thought" that makes a convincing job haha. This process would claim identity on everything, even the recognition of it not existing, funnily enough hahaha. This grasping at "self" has never been challenged and is deeply engrained in each and everyone. How unfortunate, it makes me sad realizing this ! :'( So much suffering. I was watching my sister's dog yesterday. 5 minutes after having given him food, he came back at the same place he ate and was looking to eat again, almost crying. His suffering was clear. (I can assure you he just ate plenty enough to be full for one day haha). There it was, grasping at thoughts of food and self making "one" believe anything and making "one" suffer unecessarily. This is all pervasive !

There is a sense of release from those ridiculous games... Strong habits remain though, but I feel I can just relax and they'll drop by themselves. A new journey is starting ! There is also a feeling of sadness about this unecessary suffering around.
Do you have anything you want to inquire further?
No, other that it was nice talking to you ! Life goes on :) I wish you a great journey !


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