I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

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KiwiKen
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Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

Postby KiwiKen » Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:13 pm

Hi Stacy,

Good to hear you're hanging in there.

What am I noticing???

Daily I am questioning something that is becoming more obvious. Mainly around the exercises we have been doing the last week or so. Who/What is this sense of "Doership/Ownership". Its presence is very obvious during my daily activities and in some ways seems to be stronger and asserting itself more obviously... Its a little troubling simply because I feel I am stepping backwards if that makes sense...Even now as I write this, I question...Who is this "I am" that's going backwards?

A small conundrum but not too troublesome. Another situation that has arisen is "A desire" that is playing as a Loop. I don't need another motor car but I am fixated on getting one. Again it seems an assertion of "Will" so to say..Its apparent and a tiny bit troublesome..I guess I'm seeing some sort of defense mechanism arising.

Any way enough about me...You take care...Something we all go through eventually. I'm sorry for your loss.

Much Love

Ken

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Anastacia42
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Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

Postby Anastacia42 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:37 am

Thanks, Ken.

We're back to you now. Let's move on.

Drink Exercise

The aim of the following exercise is to discover whether the function of choice can really be found or confirmed in actual experience. The idea of making ‘choices‘ is a very clear example of a function that we wrongly identify as the basis of our identity.

Here's what’s needed - a chair, a table and two different drinks. Any two drinks you like are okay for this: coffee, tea, milk, water, juices, smoothies, beer, wine, etc.

Preparation - Place the two drinks side by side on the table in front of you, sit comfortably on the chair and mentally label them as drink A and drink B.

Experiment - Finding the function of choice

Sit for a few moments, take a few relaxed breaths and let the dust settle. When you feel ready:

1. Look at drink A and at drink B. Think about their respective qualities, the things you like about them, compare and weigh the pros and cons of each. See if a preference is manifesting for one or the other.

2. Count to 5.

3. Choose one of the drinks. Pick it up and take a sip.

Questions:

Remember that we’re looking for some kind of function, a something, an ‘I’ which is doing the ‘choosing’.

In step 1 when thinking about their respective qualities, did you ‘choose’ the qualities? Or did they kind of appear by themselves? If some preferences manifested, did you ‘choose’ these preferences? Or did they just pop up by themselves?

In step 2 when you counted to 5, if the preferences took the back seat while the numbers took the front seat, did you ‘choose’ this sequence of event? Did you ‘choose’ to shut down the preferences to give way to the counting?

Did you directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Have you seen this function in action?

In step 3 where you made a choice, did you actually witness or directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Did anything arise that announced, ‘I am the chooser’? If so, what does this function look like?

Sometimes we describe this sense of choosing as a 'feeling’: It feels like ‘I’ did the 'choosing’. But the question is, can a feeling ‘choose’? Is it in the nature of a feeling to 'choose’?


Loving,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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Anastacia42
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Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

Postby Anastacia42 » Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:51 pm

Good morning, Ken

I haven't heard from you since Thursday. Is everything okay?

The agreement to post every day is for your benefit. Keeping the momentum going is important for you. It will help you to see.

Much love,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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KiwiKen
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Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

Postby KiwiKen » Sun Jun 21, 2020 11:51 pm

Hi Stacy,

I was just wanting to let you have some space for your Mums funeral.

Doing the latest exercise now.

Much Love

Ken

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KiwiKen
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Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

Postby KiwiKen » Sun Jun 21, 2020 11:59 pm

Hi Stacy,

All good this end..Lots of business obligations ATM..just about resolved now. Sorry to have kept you waiting.

Questions:
Remember that we’re looking for some kind of function, a something, an ‘I’ which is doing the ‘choosing’.

In step 1 when thinking about their respective qualities, did you ‘choose’ the qualities? Or did they kind of appear by themselves? If some preferences manifested, did you ‘choose’ these preferences? Or did they just pop up by themselves?
There was no conscious choice. It happened by itself.
In step 2 when you counted to 5, if the preferences took the back seat while the numbers took the front seat, did you ‘choose’ this sequence of event? Did you ‘choose’ to shut down the preferences to give way to the counting?
Interesting..Quite true. Again a conscious choice wasn't made.
Did you directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Have you seen this function in action?
No
In step 3 where you made a choice, did you actually witness or directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Did anything arise that announced, ‘I am the chooser’? If so, what does this function look like?
No announcements arose.
Sometimes we describe this sense of choosing as a 'feeling’: It feels like ‘I’ did the 'choosing’. But the question is, can a feeling ‘choose’? Is it in the nature of a feeling to 'choose’?
Generally it isn't in the nature of feelings to make a choice, but!!! there is a sense of a relationship between the sense and the action. Is this is just a subtle content of Thought I wonder?

Much love

Ken

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Anastacia42
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Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

Postby Anastacia42 » Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:41 am

Hi Ken,

First, with COVID, there will be no travel & no funeral at this time. Maybe later. Thank you.
sense of a relationship between the sense and the action. Is this is just a subtle content of Thought I wonder?
Yes. Correct.

There is also Awareness. but does that indicate a separate self of any kind?

Explore ‘Sense of Self’

Let’s say that you have lost your keys and you swear that you left them in your coat. Yougo to look and check all the pockets - the keys are not there. You swear they must be as that was the last place you remember them. You have a vivid memory of putting them there after you left the house. But when you check they are not there. At this point you can keep believing that the keys are in your pocket, or you can admit you were mistaken. This is just like that. You may see clearly that the self is an illusion but still feel a sense of self - just like the keys. But feeling something to be true and seeing that it is or is not is different.

Now, I’d like to ask you to explore this SENSE of self very-very thoroughly. Not by thinking about it, but by FEELING it.

Keep the focus of attention on the sense of self and inquire:

Does the sense of self have a location?

Does the sense of self have a shape or a size?

Does the sense of self say or communicate anything?

If the answer is yes, how does the sense do this exactly?

Does the sense of self have any characteristics or attributes?

What is the sense of self ‘made of’?

An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation?
Thought?

This is why we may find ourselves coming back to your expectations at the start and at the end.

Loving,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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KiwiKen
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Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

Postby KiwiKen » Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:14 am

Morning Stacy,

Now, I’d like to ask you to explore this SENSE of self very-very thoroughly. Not by thinking about it, but by FEELING it.

Keep the focus of attention on the sense of self and inquire:
Does the sense of self have a location?
I can't find one
Does the sense of self have a shape or a size?
No shape or size
Does the sense of self say or communicate anything?
No it doesn't
If the answer is yes, how does the sense do this exactly?
Does the sense of self have any characteristics or attributes?
Only the innate sense of Self
What is the sense of self ‘made of’?
Impossible to say..perhaps consciousness or awareness
An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation?
Thought?
This is why we may find ourselves coming back to your expectations at the start and at the end.

Much Love

Ken

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Anastacia42
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Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

Postby Anastacia42 » Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:48 am

Hi Ken,

Good evening. Let's take a closer LOOK
Does the sense of self have any characteristics or attributes?
Only the innate sense of Self
What is the AE of what you're calling "innate sense of self? "
What is the sense of self ‘made of’?

Impossible to say..perhaps consciousness or awareness

An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation?
Thought?
What is the Actual Experience of this "sense of self?" You may only choose from the list of AE given, remember?

Yes. there's Awareness, but does Awareness require some separate thing called "sense if self? "

Remember Colored Socks? Don't "think" LOOK!

Much love,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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Anastacia42
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Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

Postby Anastacia42 » Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:03 pm

Hi Ken,

Are you still busy with other things? I have not heard from you since Tuesday and it's Friday.

The guidance to check in every day is for you. It helps you tremendously to keep your momentum going every day. If you can't, please post that, so I don't keep checking back morning and night, OK? That would be great.

Much love,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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KiwiKen
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Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

Postby KiwiKen » Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:55 pm

Morning Stacy,

Sorry busy my end with setting up a new project in Australia from here in NZ. I will make a point of letting you know if/when I will be delayed. There is plenty of momentum so rest assured work is being done.
What is the AE of what you're calling "innate sense of self? "
On awaking first thing in the morning before is a presence, conscious, aware, intelligent. Not a content of thought as thoughts have not started arising.


An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation?
Thought?
What is the Actual Experience of this "sense of self?" You may only choose from the list of AE given, remember?
Your last question is pointing to this I believe.
Yes. there's Awareness, but does Awareness require some separate thing called "sense if self? "
No it doesn't however it isn't immediately able to be categorized as an AE... Thought would be closest I suppose, but awareness being there before thought arises, is it an AE per se?

Much Love

Ken

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Anastacia42
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Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

Postby Anastacia42 » Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:05 am

Hi Ken,

Glad you're still there.

Yes there is Awareness. I've posted about that before, I think. Awareness is not AE. It is aware of AE.

However, does Awareness mean that there's a separate self? Or not?

An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation?
Thought?
What is the Actual Experience of this "sense of self?" You may only choose from the list of AE given, remember?

Your last question is pointing to this I believe.
Do you notice how you did not answer these questions? Please do. I don't know how what you wrote related. Please just answer the question directly.

Hope your new business is going well.

Loving,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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KiwiKen
Posts: 57
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Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

Postby KiwiKen » Sat Jun 27, 2020 3:23 am

Hi Stacy,

Still here. Just back from walking the dog.
However, does Awareness mean that there's a separate self? Or not?
No it doesn't mean there is a separate self
An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation?
Thought?
None of these
What is the Actual Experience of this "sense of self?" You may only choose from the list of AE given, remember?
There is no actual experience of a "sense of self" because there isn't one.

Much Love

Ken

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Anastacia42
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Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

Postby Anastacia42 » Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:15 pm

Good morning

And you are LOOKING, not "thinking" to find your answers? Good.

This exercise is a little like the Doership exercise that seemed to help you see.

Headless Way
Taken from The Headless Way

Have a look around you. You can see colours of the room, of your 'feet’, of your ‘knees’,of your ‘chest’ and perhaps of your 'hands'.

Now point a finger towards the place where others see your head and face.

What do you see? Do you see your face? Do you see your head?

Do you see anything at all there - any colours, shapes, or any movement?

Looking into the place where others see your face, do you see colours or shapes there?

What do you find?


Have you read "Gateless Gatecrashers," which you can download from Resources at the top of this site? It contains about a dozen threads like ours where the client SAW. Please read those. if you haven't

Loving,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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KiwiKen
Posts: 57
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2020 5:10 am

Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

Postby KiwiKen » Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:28 am

Hi Stacy,

I love Thomas Harding...I have used his exercises many times over the years.

I have read "Gateless Gate Crashers". I think it led me to this site in fact. I will re-read it.

Headless Way
Taken from The Headless Way

Have a look around you. You can see colours of the room, of your 'feet’, of your ‘knees’,of your ‘chest’ and perhaps of your 'hands'.

Now point a finger towards the place where others see your head and face.
What do you see? Do you see your face? Do you see your head?
No Head can be seen
Do you see anything at all there - any colours, shapes, or any movement?
As the head has disappeared everything else has become immediate
Looking into the place where others see your face, do you see colours or shapes there?
What do you find?
What is there is everything except me..

Much Love

Ken

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Anastacia42
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Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

Postby Anastacia42 » Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:36 pm

Good morning Ken,

That's all so cool.. Good.

Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

Are you sensing any difference in how you're seeing?


Loving,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris


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