I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

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KiwiKen
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Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

Postby KiwiKen » Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:44 pm

Good Morning Stacy,

I'm pretty sure we have done a variation of this exercise a little while back
Write about it here. What was the experience like?
The Fruit (an Apple) was juicy, crisp, crunchy, shiny, sweet, tangy, delicious.
After you have done this, tell me what you noticed when you compared these three experiences. Write a little about each one:
1. Imaginary fruit
Totally imaginary, without any substance at all...A complete construct of the mind
2. Real fruit
Tangible in all senses..The direct experience of taste, sound, feeling and seeing were all very obvious and real.
3. Description
The description conjured up images of the actual DE...This is far removed from the DE and just content of the thoughts.

Much Love

Ken

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Anastacia42
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Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

Postby Anastacia42 » Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:57 pm

Observing Thoughts
Hi Ken,

While it is perfectly fine to repeat exercises and I recommend doing that, I didn't mean to. Sorry about the duplication. I actually looked to see whether I'd given that one, but I missed it.

So, first, here is a Pop Quiz:

What is the Actual Experience of emotions, any emotion?

What else is there involved that is *not* AE?

What is the Actual Experience of "body?"

What else is there which is *not* Actual experience?


Just want to be sure you are clear on those before we proceed.

Next, here is a thought exercise. Sit quietly for about 30 minutes and notice the arising thoughts.

Just let them appear as they appear. Try your best to COMPLETELY ignore what they are saying and just notice how they appear without you doing anything at all.

Where are they coming from and going to?

Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?

Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?

Can you predict your next thought?

Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?

Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?

Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?

Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence? Or is that just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that ‘one thought follows another thought’?


Remember to stay relaxed and just LOOK.

Much love,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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Anastacia42
Posts: 1967
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Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

Postby Anastacia42 » Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:57 pm

Observing Thoughts
Hi Ken,

While it is perfectly fine to repeat exercises and I recommend doing that, I didn't mean to. Sorry about the duplication. I actually looked to see whether I'd given that one, but I missed it.

So, first, here is a Pop Quiz:

What is the Actual Experience of emotions, any emotion?

What else is there involved that is *not* AE?

What is the Actual Experience of "body?"

What else is there which is *not* Actual experience?


Just want to be sure you are clear on those before we proceed.

Next, here is a thought exercise. Sit quietly for about 30 minutes and notice the arising thoughts.

Just let them appear as they appear. Try your best to COMPLETELY ignore what they are saying and just notice how they appear without you doing anything at all.

Where are they coming from and going to?

Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?

Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?

Can you predict your next thought?

Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?

Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?

Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?

Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence? Or is that just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that ‘one thought follows another thought’?


Remember to stay relaxed and just LOOK.

Much love,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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KiwiKen
Posts: 57
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2020 5:10 am

Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

Postby KiwiKen » Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:21 am

Good Morning Stacy,

So, first, here is a Pop Quiz:
What is the Actual Experience of emotions, any emotion?
DE + Content of Thought, but in reality just the DE.
What else is there involved that is *not* AE?
Content of Thought
What is the Actual Experience of "body?"
DE: Taste, smell, hearing, Feeling (touch), Seeing, Thought arising

What else is there which is *not* Actual experience?
Content of Thoughts


Just want to be sure you are clear on those before we proceed.

Next, here is a thought exercise. Sit quietly for about 30 minutes and notice the arising thoughts.

Just let them appear as they appear. Try your best to COMPLETELY ignore what they are saying and just notice how they appear without you doing anything at all.
Where are they coming from and going to?
I don't know.
Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?
No,
Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?
No
Can you predict your next thought?
NO
Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?
NO
Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?
NO
Can you pick and choose any kind of thought
?

NO
Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?
NO

It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence? Or is that just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that ‘one thought follows another thought’?

Totally agree.

I had such a lovely walk this morning. Rain just happening..

Much love Ken

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Anastacia42
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Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

Postby Anastacia42 » Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:45 am

Beautiful, Ken!

Just one clarification:
What is the Actual Experience of emotions, any emotion?
DE + Content of Thought, but in reality just the DE.
Yes, Direct Experience, but *which* DE?


In the same way as "apple" and "body" and "emotion," this story of a "me" - what is that made of?

Remember, don't think, LOOK.

Can you find an inherent self anywhere, outside of thought?

The story of "me’ can seem to have continuity. Is it really continuous? Or are there simply isolated thoughts that never can truly touch each other, some of them claiming that there's one continuous story?


Tell me only what is SEEN.

Loving,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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KiwiKen
Posts: 57
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2020 5:10 am

Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

Postby KiwiKen » Mon Jun 08, 2020 4:49 am

Hi Stacy,
Just one clarification:
What is the Actual Experience of emotions, any emotion?
DE + Content of Thought, but in reality just the DE.
Yes, Direct Experience, but *which* DE?
Feeling, a body sensation

In the same way as "apple" and "body" and "emotion," this story of a "me" - what is that made of?
Remember, don't think, LOOK.
Clearly it is the Content of thought that defines "Me".
Can you find an inherent self anywhere, outside of thought?
No, impossible to find a location for "I"
The story of "me’ can seem to have continuity. Is it really continuous? Or are there simply isolated thoughts that never can truly touch each other, some of them claiming that there's one continuous story?
They truly are isolated thoughts.

Much Love

ken

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Anastacia42
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Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

Postby Anastacia42 » Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:21 pm

Good morning!

Sorry, yesterday was extremely busy at the office and my mother is in the hospital down in Texas. I'll get a reply back to you as soon as I can.

Loving,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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Anastacia42
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Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

Postby Anastacia42 » Tue Jun 09, 2020 5:20 pm

Hi Mr. KiwiKen,

So, let's proceed.

When we look very closely and precisely we come to see that “me” thoughts only refer to other “me” thoughts, not to an actual abiding “me.” Observe thoughts with precision; can you ever find a ‘me’ within the “me” thoughts and feelings, or just a sense of me?

Remember, there IS Awareness, but this does not indicate any separate self, does it?

Check this exercise and see what is found.

Palm Flipping Exercise

1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.

2. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.

Watch like a hawk.

Don't go to thoughts – examine your direct experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:

How is the movement controlled?

Does a thought control it?

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.

Who or what chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?


Loving,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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KiwiKen
Posts: 57
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2020 5:10 am

Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

Postby KiwiKen » Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:03 am

Hi Stacy,

Please don't apologize. You must be really worried about your Mum especially as she is so far away from you. Please no need to worry about getting back to me promptly when you have family concerns, as the feeling takes you.
Watch like a hawk.

Don't go to thoughts – examine your direct experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:

How is the movement controlled?
Does a thought control it?
No thought doesn't control it. It just happens.
Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
A controller can't be located.
How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.
I have no idea how this decision is made. An instruction is given by you, the turning of the hand over and back seems to be following some sort of direction...from where I can't locate.
Who or what chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?
I'm flummoxed...I can only surmise it is awareness and it is non localized.
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?
No I can't...this is absolutely fascinating!!!

Hey Stacy..take care I wish you all the best for your Mum.

Much Love

Ken

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Anastacia42
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Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

Postby Anastacia42 » Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:44 am

Hi Ken,

Mother is fine & it is taking up a bit if time, but of course, she's worth it, so speak. From the perspective of no- self, this all is seen as simply what's happening, even when feelings show up.
Who or what chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?
I'm flummoxed...I can only surmise it is awareness and it is non localized.
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?
No I can't...this is absolutely fascinating!!!
It IS fascinating! That's Jeff Foster's definition of meditation, "pure fascination with the present moment, exactly as it is. See below.

"What is meditation?

Pure fascination with this moment,
exactly as it is.
Not adding anything.
Not taking anything away.
No goal.
No seeking.
No meditator, in fact.

..."

This one is very similar, so enjoy being fascinated some more. ;)

Raising Hand Exercise

1. Place both hands on a table in front of you, palms down.

2. When you have done that, rest for a moment and then raise one hand in the air but not the other.

Don't go to thoughts, examine your direct experience.

Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:

What is it exactly that is choosing which hand to raise?

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is doing the choosing?

What is it that is controlling the hand?

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

Can anything be found that makes the hand move?

How is the decision made?


Loving
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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KiwiKen
Posts: 57
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2020 5:10 am

Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

Postby KiwiKen » Mon Jun 15, 2020 6:14 am

Hi Stacy,

I hope you are well and things are going OK with your Mum.


1. Place both hands on a table in front of you, palms down.

2. When you have done that, rest for a moment and then raise one hand in the air but not the other.

Don't go to thoughts, examine your direct experience.

Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:

What is it exactly that is choosing which hand to raise?


I really don't know

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is doing the choosing?


No I cant

What is it that is controlling the hand?


I don't know

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?


No I can't locate a controller

Can anything be found that makes the hand move?


I can't find anything that makes my hands move

How is the decision made?


Again, I don't know, but its a great Question

Much Love

Ken

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Anastacia42
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Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

Postby Anastacia42 » Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:52 pm

Hi Ken,

Please keep LOOKING with this exercise or any other - Doership was a good one for you - until I post again. It won't be too long, but my mother died between 2 am & 4 am nurse rounds this morning and I've been deluged with calls & emails & texts.

I'm okay. (There is no "I" to be otherwise. ) I did argue with reality, crying for a few minutes early, but I'm good.

Thanks for understanding.

Loving
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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Anastacia42
Posts: 1967
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2016 3:04 am
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Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

Postby Anastacia42 » Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:56 pm

PS - it would be good to re-read your entire thread from the beginning for some review.
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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KiwiKen
Posts: 57
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2020 5:10 am

Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

Postby KiwiKen » Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:24 pm

Hi Stacy,

Peace..

Much Love

Ken

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Anastacia42
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Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

Postby Anastacia42 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:17 pm

Thank you. I'm here.

Tell me how it's going what are you noticing?
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris


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