I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

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KiwiKen
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Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

Postby KiwiKen » Tue May 19, 2020 10:44 pm

Morning Stacy,

I am out for the whole day. I will post again tomorrow.

Much Love.

Ken

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Anastacia42
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Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

Postby Anastacia42 » Wed May 20, 2020 1:26 am

Sounds good. Have fun.
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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KiwiKen
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Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

Postby KiwiKen » Thu May 21, 2020 11:23 pm

Good Morning Stacy, (Morning here that is)
Friend/Stranger

Bring up a thought about a character labelled "friend".
Then bring up a thought about a character labelled "stranger".

Compare these thoughts.
Is there a difference in these thoughts?
There is an emotional response associated with the thought of a friend whereas not with the stranger
Is there a true difference or is it just different content of thought?
Quite correct, I was just reflecting on that myself and concluded it's just a different content of thought
Now, bring up a thought about a character labelled "friend".

After that, look at a thought about the character labelled "me”.

Is there a difference?
Yes there appears to be a difference based on the emotional response but after reflecting on it I see they are both only content of thought.
Is there anything special about thoughts with the content "me-character"?
Yes, the thought about friend contains some emotional content..Whereas the thought about "me" seems much more real,
up close and personal. So this makes me examine how "Me" claims some sort of "Ownership" or "Doer-ship" where as in fact it is just a thought arising that has no owner.

Sorry about not getting back to you yesterday.

Much Love

Ken

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Anastacia42
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Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

Postby Anastacia42 » Fri May 22, 2020 1:27 am

Good work, Ken!

Exactly. Content of thought & no doership. That's it.

Once these things are seen, they cannot be unseen, much like Santa Claus.

Fine about yesterday. Thanks.

Funny you should mention doership. Let's look at that next.

Doership Exercise

Although you see that there is no noticer/ observer/ witness, there may still be the feeling of identification of being the ‘doer’. That it still ‘feels’ like there is a self that is the ‘chooser’.

So let’s have a look at this as it has to do with the sense of seeing.

Take a few relaxed breaths to let the dust settle for a while, and then:

Look on your right.

Then look on your left.

Finally, bring your head back to centre, close your eyes and look in front.

Okay, so when you look on the right, the view on the right is seen (whatever that is).

When you look on the left, the view on the left is seen (whatever that is).

And then, when you look in front of you with eyes vlosed, the view in front is seen (ie ‘black
space’).

So, when the view on the right is seen, do you have the ‘choice’ not to see?

I’m not asking can you ‘choose’ to see something else like another view or ‘black space’ if you close your eyes. The question is; can you turn seeing off? Can you NOT see what is seen?

Same thing with the view on the left, can you NOT see the view on the left?

Same thing with the view in front with closed eyes, can you NOT see the ‘black space’?

Can you turn off seeing?

What did the 'chooser' choose? Did a 'self' choose something?

If you are unable to choose what you're aware of, then what else is there to choose?


This is the Actual Experience of seeing - that which we can't turn off. It just is. LOOKING in this way can wake us up. Practice this & report what is found.

Much love,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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KiwiKen
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Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

Postby KiwiKen » Sun May 24, 2020 6:04 am

Hi Stacy,


So, when the view on the right is seen, do you have the ‘choice’ not to see?
I don't have a choice not to see for sure.
I’m not asking can you ‘choose’ to see something else like another view or ‘black space’ if you close your eyes. The question is; can you turn seeing off? Can you NOT see what is seen?
Absolutely not able to not see what is seen
Same thing with the view on the left, can you NOT see the view on the left?
Also not able to not see what is seen
Same thing with the view in front with closed eyes, can you NOT see the ‘black space’?
Also not able to not see "the black space"
Can you turn off seeing?
No I'm not able to turn of "seeing"
What did the 'chooser' choose? Did a 'self' choose something
Neither. You are pointing out very clearly that there is neither a chooser nor a self.
If you are unable to choose what you're aware of, then what else is there to choose?
Bingo!!!

I'm going to keep reflecting on this with more exercises.

Thank you so much for making this so clear.

Much Love.

Ken

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Anastacia42
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Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

Postby Anastacia42 » Sun May 24, 2020 8:16 pm

That's great, Ken.

It sounds like you want to hang out with that one befire I give you any other exercises. Take your time & let me know what you are noticing and when you want another one.

Much love
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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KiwiKen
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Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

Postby KiwiKen » Mon May 25, 2020 12:36 am

Morning,

I will do. I'm just letting this whole (False sense) of doership sink in.

Much Love

Ken

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Anastacia42
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Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

Postby Anastacia42 » Tue May 26, 2020 7:50 pm

Hi Ken,

Let's add to this newfound noticing of false sense doership. It's been a couple of days. Let's keep up the momentum.


Observing Thoughts

Sit quietly for about 30 minutes and notice the arising thoughts.

Just let them appear as they appear. Try your best to COMPLETELY ignore what they are saying and just notice how they appear without you doing anything at all.

Where are they coming from and going to?

Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?

Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?

Can you predict your next thought?

Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?

Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?

Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?

Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence?

Or is that just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that ‘one thought follows another thought’?



What is found?

Much love,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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KiwiKen
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Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

Postby KiwiKen » Wed May 27, 2020 2:02 am

Good Morning Stacy from Rainy Auckland,

Momentum Continuum..
Where are they coming from and going to?
First response is from my head where they are going to is a bit more difficult..On examining further they just seem to arise and then dissipate from out of unknown returning to unknown
Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?
Hi I did absolutely nothing to make thoughts appear
Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?
There is nothing I can do to replace this thought with another
Can you predict your next thought?
I can't predict what my next thought will be
Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?
I wish...! No not able to choose only pleasant thoughts
Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?
Again, I wish...but its impossible to choose not to have painful or negative thoughts.
Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?
No its not possible to choose any kind of thought.
Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?
Thoughts arise unbidden and I have no control over preventing them appearing
It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence?
I don't see or believe there is an organized sequence
Or is that just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that ‘one thought follows another thought’?
I don't believe there is a logical sequence to thoughts..so I don't have this experience

So this leads me to conclude if I have no control over thoughts arising, no control over whether they are pleasant or painful an inability to prevent a thought arising why do I believe they are my thoughts.. Conclusion
1. They are not my thoughts
2. Question: why do I think they are mine especially the negative or painful thoughts. Is it just out of habit/conditioning that "I" take ownership of them.

Much Love

Ken

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Anastacia42
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Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

Postby Anastacia42 » Wed May 27, 2020 1:27 pm

Good morning from Sunny Colorado!

Very good, Ken.

Yes. why? Who told you these were "your thoughts? " Or even that there was some "you," some "Ken" to have thoughts?

So with that, let's look again at "body" and "emotions."

Here are some words and a question about "body" and "emotions." Let's see if we can clear that up.

Remember:

Actual or Direct Experience is only:

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus content of thought)
Tasting
Smelling
Thought Arising (Not content of thought. That is made up, has to be taught. Just like Santa Claus.)


Body:

You are right that there is "Sensation." Yes. That is the Actual Experience and that is the ONLY word that can be used about "body," that is AE (unless you Smell or Taste it, I suppose).

If that is the case, what are all those other words you tried to add to it? There is only one thing they can be.

Read through the list of AE again. What do we constantly try to add in? What does "mind" want us to think about "body?"



Emotions:

I don't know whether you noticed, but I slipped your answer about what "emotion" is into the AE definitions a couple of days back. Did you notice?

If not, given what we have done so far, can you see what "emotion" is? What part is Actual Experience? and if there is more, what is that part called given what we are doing here?


Think of specific emotions: anger, sadness, joy, excitement, grief, any emotions will do.

What is the Actual Experience of each of them?

What is not Actual Experience?

There is only one thing the superfluous additions can be. Just like with "body," what does mind try to add in?


Loving
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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KiwiKen
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Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

Postby KiwiKen » Thu May 28, 2020 5:48 am

Hi Stacy,

Thanks so much once again..

quote]If that is the case, what are all those other words you tried to add to it? There is only one thing they can be.[/quote]

These are what you describe as Content of Thoughts
Read through the list of AE again. What do we constantly try to add in? What does "mind" want us to think about "body?"
We add "I or My" (Ownership) to these emotions
If not, given what we have done so far, can you see what "emotion" is? What part is Actual Experience? and if there is more, what is that part called given what we are doing here?
As you have pointed out Feeling without the content of thought added.
Think of specific emotions: anger, sadness, joy, excitement, grief, any emotions will do.
What is the Actual Experience of each of them?
All of them as far as I can see are Feeling or Sensation
What is not Actual Experience?
The Story added into it through the content of our thoughts
There is only one thing the superfluous additions can be. Just like with "body," what does mind try to add in?
Ownership of these emotions.."I am feeling .... because of...."

This is becoming very clear now.

Much Love

Ken

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Anastacia42
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Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

Postby Anastacia42 » Thu May 28, 2020 7:08 pm

Hi Ken,

Yes, that's it.
The story added into it through the content of our thoughts
There is only one thing the superfluous additions can be. Just like with "body," what does mind try to add in?
Ownership of these emotions.."I am feeling .... because of...."

This is becoming very clear now.
What you are calling "ownership" is also a story or content of thought. So, really, it is ALL content of thought.

What mind tries to add in is all content of thought or stories. Made-up nothings.

Can you see this? Let's do some more looking about that.

I love this next exercise. It will help you to sort out what is AE and what is just imagined even further.

Fruit Exercise

Have a piece of fruit handy, or something that you like to eat.

For the first couple of minutes imagine you are eating the fruit…..feel the sensations of chewing, the taste, the texture, the fragrance, hear the crunching sound that the chewing makes. Really enjoy the imaginary piece of fruit as much as you can.

Then for the next couple of minutes actually bite the fruit and see the difference.

Experience the fruit with curiosity and dive into the sensations of chewing, swallowing, the sounds and the taste. Really enjoy the experience of actually eating the piece of fruit.

Then for another minute or so describe the taste and smell in as much detail as possible.

Write about it here. What was the experience like?

After you have done this, tell me what you noticed when you compared these three experiences. Write a little about each one:

1. Imaginary fruit

2. Real fruit

3. Description


Pay close attention to what is AE and what is content of thought or story made up by the mind.

Much love,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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KiwiKen
Posts: 57
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2020 5:10 am

Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

Postby KiwiKen » Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:23 am

Hi Stacy,

I looked for your latest reply on Saturday but I overlooked it because of some many emails. We have just got home after a 3 day Public Holiday "Queens Birthday Weekend" I'm really tired from driving so I will continue with the fruit exercise in the morning..

I'm very sorry about the delay in getting back to you.''

much love

Ken

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Anastacia42
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Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

Postby Anastacia42 » Mon Jun 01, 2020 3:00 pm

Hi Ken,

No apology required. When we get close to SEEING, many distractions come up.

Much love,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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KiwiKen
Posts: 57
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2020 5:10 am

Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

Postby KiwiKen » Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:21 am

Hi Stacy,

THANK YOU

Much Love

Ken


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