I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

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KiwiKen
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I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

Postby KiwiKen » Mon Apr 27, 2020 5:11 am

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
Pointing ot my feeling of self is just an idea thats created out of my thoughts, opinions, likes and dislikes. As such it is not real

What are you looking for at LU?
To go beyond my conceptual understanding to what is genuine. I have been reading books and doing suggested exercises in these books but I really don't know if I truly believe that I have really "got it" or my mind is pretending I have.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I am expecting to be guided by someone who has jumped this final hurdle. With their guidance I expect that I too will be finally free from this burdensome task. Free to just be and not to have this question about awakening rattling on like a bent record as it has for the last 40 years.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
The 1980s was all about personal development groups
In the 1990's I visited Pappaji 3 times. Here I came across Nisagardata Maharaj. When Poonjaji died I went to see Ramesh Balsekar for a couple of years. After years of in activity from frustration I went back to India 2 years ago and did the Last Satsang course with Dolano.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10

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Anastacia42
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Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

Postby Anastacia42 » Tue Apr 28, 2020 5:24 pm

Hi KiwiKen,

My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like?

If so, what shall I call you? Ken? What time zone are you in?


If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:-
1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, colour and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?


Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Please watch the video on the Quote Function that is at the top of The Gate forum.


Much love,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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KiwiKen
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Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

Postby KiwiKen » Tue Apr 28, 2020 10:29 pm

Morning Stacy, thank you for offering to be my guide that would be great. I live in Auckland NZ. I'm not sure how that fits for your time zone. How would you like to call me? I am on WhatsApp and Messenger.
I can confirm that I have read the disclaimer and do not not take prescribed medications or other. I will watch the video this morning. My answers for my expectations are
1. I don't expect to see any change in life, it is what it is. However that's not to say I don't wish for good health and a long happy life.
2. For me, I'm hoping that the search will be over. If I wasn't convinced already I wouldn't be reaching out.
3. This answer will flow into your next question. I won't feel something us missing.
4. What's missing, hmm, that's a good one. The "sense of completion" is what comes up.

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Anastacia42
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Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

Postby Anastacia42 » Wed Apr 29, 2020 2:16 am

Hi, is it Ken?

My pleasure to help with this.

I was only asking for your name. Thank you.

Wasn't planning on calling. I work a 40 hour a week job, so it's best that I work on answers in my free time.

Your expectations are relatively reasonable.

What comes up when is read that there is no self, never had been & never will be?


Much love,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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KiwiKen
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Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2020 5:10 am

Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

Postby KiwiKen » Wed Apr 29, 2020 2:57 am

Hi Stacey, Haha...Yes, my name is Ken. I read you saying "shall I call as (phone) you Ken", silly me.
What comes up...Hmm...Am I blocking something I don't know...It just seems like a very reasonable statement that I believe it to be true so it's not eliciting a reaction other than Yes, that's true.

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Anastacia42
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Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

Postby Anastacia42 » Wed Apr 29, 2020 3:36 am

Thanks, Ken.

This next bit explains how to approach all exercises here.

Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that.

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment.

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)


Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.


Much love

Stacy ( no "e")
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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KiwiKen
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Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2020 5:10 am

Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

Postby KiwiKen » Wed Apr 29, 2020 3:54 am

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.
Hi Stacy,
I was wondering if I had spelled your name wrong. Sorry, about that. Hopefully, I'm getting it right with the "Quotes". This is my first time on a Forum.
Yes, I understand your example of "Direct Seeing" I will be trying my best to do that but I am a bit of a Headspace person so hopefully you keep pointing me in the right direction when I stray.
What do you mean by "thoughts arising, but not their content?
I understand you are on the other side of the world, goodness knows what time it is there but thank you very much for helping me, I really appreciate it.

Much Love ..Ken

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Anastacia42
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Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

Postby Anastacia42 » Wed Apr 29, 2020 4:11 am

Hi Ken,

You're welcome. I'm in Colorado.

I'll be giving several exercises so you can see for yourself the difference between Thought Arising, which just happens, and thought content, which is made up.

Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with a list like the one above. Post several of your own observations in a list like the one above, please.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps.

Loving,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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KiwiKen
Posts: 57
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2020 5:10 am

Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

Postby KiwiKen » Wed Apr 29, 2020 4:48 am

Hi Stacy,

Just checked the time in Colorado so I'll leave you in peace for the rest of the night. I will post the results for you tomorrow.

Cheers...Ken

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Anastacia42
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Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

Postby Anastacia42 » Wed Apr 29, 2020 2:09 pm

You can post at all hours of the day-and-night.

That is the beauty of email and text. Nothing rings if I don't want it to.

Thank you
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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KiwiKen
Posts: 57
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2020 5:10 am

Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

Postby KiwiKen » Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:38 pm

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought
Good Morning Tracy,
I thought to try this exercise this morning to see if I'm on the right track.

Seeing my dog
Smelling my Rose's
My phone in my fingers
Tasting my coffee
Hearing the cars driving by
Thought about email

Last night having a shower I applied this process and what I noticed is that I labelled every sensation. This came as quite a surprise to me. The label in my mind followed every observation.
The water droplets.
The bath tiles
A green towel.
Hot water

I will continue through the day and send another message in the afternoon. I hope you are doing well in these very interesting times.

Talk to you soon...Ken

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Anastacia42
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Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

Postby Anastacia42 » Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:08 pm

Hi Ken

First, let's learn the Quote function. Please go to this link for that:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

Yes. please send a few more examples for this exercise. You seem to mostly understand, but let's be sure.

This one...
My phone in my fingers
Does not mention any of the 6 Actual Experiences. That may be an oversight. Which is it?

Thanks!
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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KiwiKen
Posts: 57
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2020 5:10 am

Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

Postby KiwiKen » Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:26 pm

Yes. please send a few more examples for this exercise
Does not mention any of the 6 Actual Experiences. That may be an oversight
.

Hi Tracy, yes I realized I hadn't highlighted the copied text before
Hitting the quote button. Let's see if I've got it right this time
I will put an = plus the sensory experience in my next post.

Again thank you for your guidance

Ken

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Anastacia42
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Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

Postby Anastacia42 » Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:49 am

You're welcome.

Do you see my name in the signature line?

It isn't terribly important, but you keep calling this one different names.

Looking forward to your list.

Much love
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

User avatar
KiwiKen
Posts: 57
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2020 5:10 am

Re: I'm retired from work, I want to retire from the Search

Postby KiwiKen » Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:52 am

Hi Stacy, This one is a bit doddery...Please forgive!


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