Liberation

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RobDjemil
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Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:33 pm

Liberation

Postby RobDjemil » Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:34 pm

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
life is a just story, the story of me. Wherein there is no true self

What are you looking for at LU?
Show me that there is no separate self. To guide me through the process & help me see clearly what is happening is all there is & not a separate me in control. I would like to see this from an experiential perspective

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
To guide me through the illusion of a separate self that’ thinks it’s in control. An honest, open transparent dialogue. An experienced guide that is prepared for a full & frank exchange. I’ve been through the Gateless Gate previously, it was many years ago & I’ve all but forgotten what happened.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I’m 55 years old. I’ve been on a spiritual journey since childhood. I’ve been everywhere (worldwide) & done everything you can shake a stick. I’ve also been through the Gateless Gate with you many years ago & long forgotten.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
11

Bananafish
Posts: 3636
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Location: Japan
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Re: Liberation

Postby Bananafish » Mon May 04, 2020 5:12 am

Hi RobDjemil. :) Welcome back to LU!

My name is Bananafish, one of the guides in this forum.
I'd be more than glad to help you.


One thing to mention before we start is that I can't show you that there is no self.
You have to see yourself, and I point, telling you where to look. Ok?


First, please tell what you want from seeing that there is no separate self.
Is that an end in itself? Or do you expect that something will happen as a result of
that seeing?


Also, please tell what you feel is lacking to see that there is no self.
Is there anything that is preventing you from seeing it?


Looking forward to your reply!


Bananafish
I'm available for Skype or Zoom face to face conversation. Drop me a line and we could arrange
the date.
Email: swinganova@hotmail.co.jp
Website: https://en.modernkoanproject.com

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RobDjemil
Posts: 113
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:33 pm

Re: Liberation

Postby RobDjemil » Mon May 04, 2020 8:13 am

I want freedom. Freedom to live life in the knowledge that it’s an illusionary me that’s in the way of living an uninterrupted life.

I don’t think it’s an end but possibly the beginning of something new, maybe even a beginning of the end. Whatever end means.

I want to see without question that there’s no separate self. I can’t fund a chooser of the words, i don’t appear to be in control my thoughts or feelings but this seems to be an intellectual understanding rather any real knowing. I would like it it be the latter.

What’s seems to be preventing the seeing, I suspect’ is a me looking to find it’s own absence but I don’t even know that to be true. Maybe I’m just repeating parrot fashion what I’ve previously heard & now believe to be true without any concrete knowledge

Bananafish
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Location: Japan
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Re: Liberation

Postby Bananafish » Mon May 04, 2020 8:43 am

Hi RobDjemil. :) Good to receive your reply.


Could you tell a bit more about what you call "an uninterrupted life"?
What would it be like, and what is interrupting what?


What’s seems to be preventing the seeing, I suspect’ is a me looking to find it’s own absence


Where is that "me" right now? Could you point to it with your finger?



Warm regards,

Bananafish
I'm available for Skype or Zoom face to face conversation. Drop me a line and we could arrange
the date.
Email: swinganova@hotmail.co.jp
Website: https://en.modernkoanproject.com

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RobDjemil
Posts: 113
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:33 pm

Re: Liberation

Postby RobDjemil » Mon May 04, 2020 9:01 am

When I look at nature it’s doesn't need a doer to make the wind blow or water flow. The sun & moon does what it does. A tree doesn’t need a doer to release oxygen into the air & million other things in nature act similarly. The same with the human body, it breaths itself, the heart beats, the body breaths, it digested itself, again, all without a doer. I can’t make myself feel good when I feel bad or bad when I feel good. Thoughts & feelings appear & disappear & I don’t have any control what that might look like from moment to moment. For this reason it seems like the life happens naturally all in its own & uninterrupted. However, there seems to a mind here that gets in the way of that glow thinking it’s sovereign, autonomous & self-ruling but that’s a contradiction to my experience & I can’t mentally resolve.

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RobDjemil
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Re: Liberation

Postby RobDjemil » Mon May 04, 2020 9:08 am

When I feel bad I try to engage the mind to find a way out of the suffering but it seems that it’s the mind that causes the suffering. However, if life is happening on its own you would think I should be able to get out of my own way & just watch it silently & not participate without getting involved but that’s not the case. It feels like I’m stuck in a corridor between the mind & no mind with no escape route. I hope that makes sense

Bananafish
Posts: 3636
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:29 pm
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Re: Liberation

Postby Bananafish » Mon May 04, 2020 9:12 am

Hi. :) You have missed one of the questions.
It's important that you answer all the questions, ok?


Again ...

Where is that "me" right now? Could you point to it with your finger?


However, there seems to a mind here that gets in the way of that glow


Where is it? In the same way as above, could you point to it with your finger?



Warm wishes,

Bananafish
I'm available for Skype or Zoom face to face conversation. Drop me a line and we could arrange
the date.
Email: swinganova@hotmail.co.jp
Website: https://en.modernkoanproject.com

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RobDjemil
Posts: 113
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:33 pm

Re: Liberation

Postby RobDjemil » Mon May 04, 2020 9:15 am

I can’t actually point a finger at a me but somehow it still
feels like I’m here

Bananafish
Posts: 3636
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:29 pm
Location: Japan
Contact:

Re: Liberation

Postby Bananafish » Mon May 04, 2020 9:33 am

What is that "feeling"?

Is it a thought? An image? A bodily sensation? Or else?

Where is "here"? Could you point at that particular place?
I'm available for Skype or Zoom face to face conversation. Drop me a line and we could arrange
the date.
Email: swinganova@hotmail.co.jp
Website: https://en.modernkoanproject.com

User avatar
RobDjemil
Posts: 113
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:33 pm

Re: Liberation

Postby RobDjemil » Mon May 04, 2020 9:38 am

Its a feeling of discomfort. It’s a feeling that arises in my body & of which I look to escape

It’s a sensation in the body

Here is this present moment now where everything happens

Bananafish
Posts: 3636
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:29 pm
Location: Japan
Contact:

Re: Liberation

Postby Bananafish » Mon May 04, 2020 10:04 am

Its a feeling of discomfort. It’s a feeling that arises in my body & of which I look to escape


What relates that "discomfort" with "the feeling like you're here"?
Isn't is more than just a discomfort?



Here is this present moment now where everything happens


That's a concept you learned somewhere, isn't it? Forgive me if I'm wrong.
Again, where is "here"? Could you point at that particular place?



Please read the question carefully before you actually answer them; it's far effective
to take time for each question rather than skipping through them. And notice the crave
for the right and quick answers throughout this dialogue.
I'm available for Skype or Zoom face to face conversation. Drop me a line and we could arrange
the date.
Email: swinganova@hotmail.co.jp
Website: https://en.modernkoanproject.com

User avatar
RobDjemil
Posts: 113
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:33 pm

Re: Liberation

Postby RobDjemil » Mon May 04, 2020 10:13 am

The thought & what’s happening now in my body seems to relate the feeling to the discomfort. I don’t know what you mean when you say it’s more than a discomfort other than the above

I suspect it is a concept which I’ve now taken as truth & now unable to differentiate between the two.

Bananafish
Posts: 3636
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:29 pm
Location: Japan
Contact:

Re: Liberation

Postby Bananafish » Mon May 04, 2020 11:37 am

Sorry, typo. I meant, "Is it more than just a discomfort?"


The thought & what’s happening now in my body seems to relate the feeling to the discomfort.


What do you mean by "what’s happening now in your body seems to relate the feeling to the discomfort"?
Are "what's happening in your body" and "discomfort" something separate which needs differentiation?
I'm available for Skype or Zoom face to face conversation. Drop me a line and we could arrange
the date.
Email: swinganova@hotmail.co.jp
Website: https://en.modernkoanproject.com

User avatar
RobDjemil
Posts: 113
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:33 pm

Re: Liberation

Postby RobDjemil » Mon May 04, 2020 12:16 pm

If I have an uneasy feeling in body I.e in the chest or worrying about something that’s what is happening now. I would say it’s a discomfort but not than more than a discomfort. Those feelings relate to me as person, they’re felt in me.

They don’t need differentiation. Feelings in the body & discomfort are the same thing

Bananafish
Posts: 3636
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:29 pm
Location: Japan
Contact:

Re: Liberation

Postby Bananafish » Tue May 05, 2020 12:02 pm

Hi RobDjemil. :)


Those feelings relate to me as person, they’re felt in me.


Where is that "me" in which discomfort is felt?
Please point to it with your finger, and report where you pointed to.


Warm wishes,

Bananafish
I'm available for Skype or Zoom face to face conversation. Drop me a line and we could arrange
the date.
Email: swinganova@hotmail.co.jp
Website: https://en.modernkoanproject.com


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