Enquiry

[jb9]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I have had enough experiences through "glimpses" that the self that arises comes after direct experience, or awareness. The minute it pops up, the world is divided and separated, firstly into objects (pot of flowers, field, etc), then emotions (like, don't like, scary, exhilarating). It is always separating, and has a contracted quality.

What are you looking for at LU?
I would like to know the true nature of my self. There have been enough little pointers in my experience, but the search has reached a desperate point where I am sick of seeking and looking 'elsewhere' for the answer. I would like clarity.
I have been a seeker for a long time, and in the past 3 years the search has become very intense; in fact it is all I care about. But one of the things that has become much clearer recently is the fact that "liberation" is not going to be "out there." I had built up this idea that it would be a special place, some alternative to "this". But recently through listening to various speakers I have come to see that there could not be anything experienced beyond what is already presenting.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I have had chats/skype sessions with nonduality speakers before, and experienced heightened clarity after the session and a greater sense of ease. This is what I would expect this time. I think the intimacy of a 1-on-1 discussion is necessarily to really get to the core of the "problem."

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I am 36, and started seeking when I was 19, when I started Buddhist meditation. The past 17 years have involved a consistent seeking in one form or another. I have tried different Buddhist practices, going on various silent retreats, as well as Christian meditation. I looked at various New Age material as well.
Within this period I have also been through Twelve Step programmes to deal with alcohol/drug addiction, as well as attending weekly therapy sessions for a year.
What led me to nonduality was reading Eckhart Tolle's "The Power of Now" in roughly 2015. I also read "The New Earth". Whenever I read them everything stopped (the mind's chatter) and I just had to sit and experience it. My second reading of "New Earth" in 2017 gave me the same experience, only this time the experience didn't go away, and stabilised into a state of oneness, which led me to drop everything in my life (job, degree course) and focus on nonduality. In the last 3 years I have listened to countless YouTube talks, attended talks in person, and also had skype sessions with different speakers.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10

[Anastacia42]

Good morning,

My name is Stacy and I can be your guide if you like. If so, what would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:-
1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, colour and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the Quote function to highlight the question being answered. Please watch the video on how to use the Quote function at the top of the Gate forum.

Much love,

[jb9]

Hi Stacy

Thank you so much for your reply. I would love you to guide me through! You can call me Jeremy. I am in London time zone (GMT).

I confirm I have read and understood the disclaimer and FAQs.

I shall start work on the questions and get back to you soon

Kind regards, Jeremy

[jb9]

BTW I forgot to say I am up to p.82 of Gateless Gatecrashers and even as I am reading it feels like all kinds of illusions are falling away, so I shall carry on with that
Best, Jeremy

[jb9]

How will life change?

There will be an increased sense of ease because there won’t be a constricted sense of “me” with all its fears and projections. Things will show up and be dealt with as and when they appear, in the most logical way they need to be dealt with. There will still be suffering, fear, joy, happiness, etc, only they won’t have the added layer that life shouldn’t be that way.

How will you change?

There will be more serenity, and less fear confronting each day. I will be more measured in my emotions and reactions because there won’t be a sense that I shouldn’t feel that way. There will be less of a sense of shame, because how I am is how I am and so it doesn’t need to be covered up/changed in any way.

What will be different?

Because there will be an absence of a seeking energy, I will wake up each day with the joy of whatever is presenting, rather than with a sense, albeit subtle, that there is something that needs to be found, as it is at the moment. There will be more relaxation in the body, and hence in life and I will have an increasing amount of energy to do things just for the fun of it.

What is missing?

There is a sense that something is not right. There is still seeking energy, after all these years: it is hard to say more than that. It is a sense that there is someone that is going to get something, that one day it will all be OK when it has got “enlightenment.”

[Anastacia42]

Hi Jeremy!

I just want to acknowledge that I've seen your posts. Yes, please keep reading.

Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that.

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment.

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.


Loving,

[Anastacia42]

Hi again

Your expectations are normal and somewhat reasonable. What we want you to be aware of is that only 2 things can keep you from seeing: fear and expectations.

So we want to know what those are upfront.

When is read that there is no self & never has been, what comes up?

Loving,

[jb9]

Hi Stacy

Firstly, thank you again. A week ago I’d never even heard of LU! But a chat with a nonduality speaker about 2 weeks ago set off an avalanche of things read, other conversations, YouTube videos, etc, which has led me here! It feels great to have another person to help push me over the edge.

I am continuing to read Gatecrashers, and it is a powerful experience. Sometimes it takes me 15mins just to read one page. I feel like illusions are falling away like blocks of ice from an iceberg, melting into the sea. And sometimes I just sit and listen to music, because it seems something is playing out energetically which I can’t put my finger on, and I just need to let it happen. So I think I shall read it till the end, and see what happens.

One moment in the book that was powerful for me was when she asked the other guy what was holding him back. I did this, and I realised that there was a fear of losing face/being rejected by society, which was very deeply held onto. As she suggests in the dialogue, I tried to see the feelings that came up as just feelings without a doer. What has followed are moments of strongly charged memories, with powerful emotions and sense of “my,” and I am just continuing to let it be and really interrogate what that “My” that is being hurt is, and what it is afraid of happening.

Thank you for the sock analogy, that makes sense! I shall strive to keep it about concrete, felt experience.

You asked me about fears and expectations, so here goes:

In this moment, I am afraid that I will die and that there will be nothing left to control life. This will leave me quite vulnerable because I won’t be able to control how I appear to other people, which may lead to judgement/ridicule.
Something else that comes up is that I have had many prolonged moments of clarity and peace, but then sometimes strong feelings come up/charged memories, and I feel overwhelmed and cannot see the wood for the trees. An example of this is lust, which has got me into bad situations in the past. Last night it came over me and I was afraid I would go and act on it and never come back to clarity.

As for expectations, a lot of projections are coming up also. One of these is being a spiritual teacher who gives nonduality talks and creates a sense of peace and wellbeing, and people laud him for it, and everything runs smoothly around him. So yes: there is an expectation that I shall then have something which I can then impart on others as an act of service, which feels quite selfish actually. Another projection I have been having is falling in love with the man of my dreams and having a perfect, “spiritual” relationship, where everything is great and smooth and we are an example to others. It’s a bit embarrassing to write this!

As to your other question,

what comes up when it is read there is no self and never has been,

there is a block, despite the seeming clarity that has emerged after reading some of the dialogues. It seems quite clear that there is no “me” running the show right now, but it seems like there has been up until now for some reason.
Another thing that is causing a block is when I hear people passing by my window going for walks and I posit the idea that we are one, that there is no separation between us. Again, for some reason that is a contraction that doesn’t want to budge. What comes up are seeming differences between us, eg. political opinions, they being less “spiritual”/”awake” than me, etc.

I shall let you know if anything else comes up.

Kind regards
Jeremy

[Anastacia42]

Hi Jeremy,

Good. Fears & expectations noted.

I shall strive to keep it about concrete, felt experience.

Okay...

Fear of death - there is a meditation on this that I may give you later.

Fears about how others see you, wanting control. As you get clear & see no self, who is there for anyone to judge? Who is there to do something called "control." There are specific exercises for this & more.

I am continuing to read Gatecrashers, and it is a powerful experience. Sometimes it takes me 15mins just to read one page. I feel like illusions are falling away like blocks of ice from an iceberg, melting into the sea. And sometimes I just sit and listen to music, because it seems something is playing out energetically which I can’t put my finger on, and I just need to let it happen. So I think I shall read it till the end, and see what happens.

Yes, good! That's what it feels like to see Direct Experience.

Now, let us get very clear on Actual or Direct Experience. First the senses and then the difference between Thought Arising and the content of thought.

Ready?

Direct Experience - Labelling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can.

Label daily activities simply colour/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/colour
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual/direct experience) and report back how it goes.

Reply with a couple of lists like the one above.

Loving,

[jb9]

Hi Stacy

Thanks for this. I shall get on with the exercise.

I wanted to tell you also that during the day (I think in response to seeing one of Ilona’s videos) I whispered out loud: “Who is Jeremy?” as I was writing. After I sent you the email I went for a long walk. I stopped, looking at the view, and said out loud, quietly, “Where is the seer?”, “Where is the seen?”, “Where is the seeing?”, and waited after each statement to see what came up. I had to repeat some of them a few times, but after a while the three seemed to be almost the same thing. Later on in my walk I started asking the question “Who am I?” I find this the hardest, because, even after years of listening to nonduality speakers starting their talks by saying “there is no separate self,” it is the most sticky one, the one that yields least when I test it.

As I carried on with my walk, other questions spontaneously arose, and what started was a dialogue (or monologue?!). As I said before, with people walking past my window at home I really couldn’t get used to the idea that we were one, that there was no separation between us, because of imagined opinions on their part which might conflict with mine. Anyway, I was still feeling this on my walk, and I started talking to the trees, to the bushes, even the bees! I asked “Who are you?” and waited for a response. I even walked past a bush and said “Who are you?”, “Am I separate from you?”, “Do you hate me?”, “Do you love me?”, “Are you indifferent to me?”! Towards the end of the walk, I started to ask the most painfully frustrating question: “Is there a separate Jeremy here?” It made me really sad to feel the unyieldingness of this question, as if I was right back at square one of the search, but I just tried to calm down and carry on and enjoy the beautiful trees and sunshine on my skin and occasional trains whooshing by. As I was walking home I started feeling fears, and I started a running commentary, eg “Jeremy is feeling lust now,” “Jeremy is feeling anxious and ashamed of fancying that person,” etc. As soon as the words came out (still out loud, but softly!) it was as if the fear was caught in the act, seen for what it was, and most of the time dissipated.

I just wanted to report this as it was an interesting experience, and quite out of the blue! And towards the end I felt the questions were penetrating my very bones, which now felt very soft and penetrable. I never thought words would be so useful…

Much love
Jeremy

[Anastacia42]

Hi,

Perfectly fine experience. I see you're trying very hard. Focus, but relax!

We do ask you in the initial post ...

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Glad you had a pleasant experience.

And, it can get very muddy & confusing to do too much & too many various approaches. So be aware of that. I really only need to hear about the exercises given, mostly.

Can you see how this might be trying to show me how well you're doing and how good you are? A little bragging,, maybe? There is no you. Just be aware. It's okay. Relax.

Did you do the exercise given?


Loving,

Much love,

[jb9]

Hi Stacy

Thanks for your prompt reply. Acknowledged point 4 of initial post.

I am pleased you told me to relax! Because it’s something that doesn’t come easily; I tend to be intense.

What you said about me bragging stung a bit!! And it was really useful because then I looked at what was being threatened. It really was an eye-opener when I first saw how outlandish my projections about this liberation business were.

I have been doing as you say. Here are some of the results:
Taking out the bins
Picking up bin: touching, seeing the bin & room
Walking outside: Feeling cool air, thoughts about this exercise, looking at bin
Throwing it in bin: feel of bin in hands, sounds of rubbish falling
Eating Toast
Bread: taste
Texture of toast, feeling of crossed legs: touch
View of room, carpet, table, etc: sight
Music in ears: sound
Thoughts/projections about this process: thought
Planning for what to do later: thought

Amazing to realise that all there is is just sensory experience plus thoughts.

And continue to read the book, which continues to have an effect…

Much love, Jeremy

[jb9]

Hi Stacy

Just wanted to update you and say your exercise is extremely useful. I have had some overwhelming experiences today (involving family!!) and all I've done is to take it back to seeing, feeling, tasting, hearing, and thoughts, again and again. It seems to be burning off some of the more sticky/emotive projections/fears.

Much love
Jeremy

[Anastacia42]

Hi Jeremy,

Yes. I knew that might sting a little. You want to be LOOKING for the self, rather than continuing a story of a "self," so it's important to notice when you're making up that story. OK?

Good work. Very close. Some notes below:

Taking out the bins
Picking up bin: touching, seeing the bin & room

Are "bin" & "room" a form of Actual Experience? If not, what are they doing on the right side with "Touching" and "Seeing?"

Walking outside: Feeling cool air, thoughts about this exercise, looking at bin

This one does not follow the format of the exercise. Which part is actual experience? Only that goes on the right.

Throwing it in bin: feel of bin in hands, sounds of rubbish falling

Same here. Put the Actual Experience ONLY on the right to show that you know what is. Separate them onto 3 lines.

Eating Toast
Bread: taste

This one might be right. Only Taste is on the right. That is the only AE here.

Texture of toast, feeling of crossed legs: touch

Correct!

View of room, carpet, table, etc: sight

Music in ears: sound

Thoughts/projections about this process: thought

Planning for what to do later: thought

These are all correct. You seem to be getting the hang of it.

Please do one more set to be sure you've got this. Every exercise that follows is based on it.


Continue to relax. This is very important.

Looking forward to your next set of Actual Experience examples!

Loving,

[Anastacia42]

PS - Good work with the family. You can give a list for the exercise. if you like. What do you notice when you focus only on Actual Experience?

Loving,