Looking to lose the me

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beingmetta
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Re: Looking to lose the me

Postby beingmetta » Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:50 am

Hello again, :)
I meant to send that last message before but it just posted now.

As soon as you notice that it FEELS that there is a me/Cole doing all of these, stop for a moment, and FEEL the sensation in the body that FEELS to be me.
I've struggled to do this one, connecting my emotions to the body has always been a struggle. To decribe how I feel with words is a challange.. I tried not to feel for a very long time. It's also a large reason why I read and try to learn intellectually was to find ways to express how I was feeling... I answered as honestly as I experianced..

Where is the sensation in the body that feels to be me?


There was many different sensations felt depending on the Experiance.

There would be a moment of feeling the genetials followed by a thought i have to pee.

When it gets later in the day. The sensation in my the eyes of them closing (getting drowsy) followed by a thought I am tired.

A sensation is felt in the stomach. (Movement) followed by a thought I am hungry

A sensation was Experianced somewhere and then labelled as mine/me (itch)


A thought of I should brush my teeth and a sensation in my hand was felt. As if grabbing the tooth brush in preparation
Which feels to be truer:
- I have no control over what I am doing, I am not moving the arms and legs, they just move, and I just passively observe it.
OR
- There is nothing inside moving the body. The body just moves on its own, without a person orchestrating the movements from within?
Through experiance there is sensations I feel come up in places on the body, thoughts following taking ownership of them.
There is a feeling of experiencing sensations when Cole Is paying attention..
Meanwhile so many things happen throughout the day where it just happens, Without a Cole even being recgonized as participating in the events.

When playing video games there's moments of anger and frustartion. Saying things and letting people know how cole feels. But there's not a me nessicarily aware that I'm consiously acting them out. It's sort of like a movie playing and I'm watching in the theatre, not even being able to say calm down... or relax it's just a game. I only recogonzied after when relaxed sitting in bed as they come up as memory. Replaying them like that was me???

Cole goes to school everyday but there isn't a Cole making all the actions. There is a Cole after looking at the memories.
reflecting on the things to study in the memories.


There is a sence of just being when the ideas and thoughts don't come in...
Which if it's just being, there isn't a me in a body... there is just this aliveness which feels like:

There is nothing inside moving the body. The body just moves on its own, without a person orchestrating the movements from within.

When those moments of being happen there isn't even a body... Not until thoughts come in to take ownership of the sensations and that feeling of me and the body come back The idea of responsibility to do something about the thoughts comes in and now there's ownership.

I must. I am. I feel. I need,



Cheers
Love Cole

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Vivien
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Re: Looking to lose the me

Postby Vivien » Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:21 am

All right, thank you for letting me know.

Have a nice day,
Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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beingmetta
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Re: Looking to lose the me

Postby beingmetta » Thu Jun 04, 2020 7:19 am

Hey there,
I posted above my last responce :)

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Vivien
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Re: Looking to lose the me

Postby Vivien » Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:40 am

Hi Cole,
I've struggled to do this one, connecting my emotions to the body has always been a struggle. To decribe how I feel with words is a challange.. I tried not to feel for a very long time.
Feeling whatever is here is an essential part of awakening. If feelings are locked out, if feeling emotions are being avoided and pushed, then that just fortifies the belief in the me, who doesn’t want to feel.

What happens if you just sit for a while, and just let any sensations, feelings and emotions arise without trying to run away from them?

Is it possible just let them be?

What happens when you don’t try to push feelings away, and you just sit with them?


Please try this out.

Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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beingmetta
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Re: Looking to lose the me

Postby beingmetta » Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:53 pm

Hello,
Feeling whatever is here is an essential part of awakening. If feelings are locked out, if feeling emotions are being avoided and pushed, then that just fortifies the belief in the me, who doesn’t want to feel.
Gotcha
What happens if you just sit for a while, and just let any sensations, feelings and emotions arise without trying to run away from them?
When I sat with the sensations, emotions and feelings, emotions came up but there wasn't feeling in the body Experianced.
There's a discconnect to the feelings connecting to the body ..emotions and thoughts eventually went away.

Is it possible just let them be?
Yes
What happens when you don’t try to push feelings away, and you just sit with them?
When feelings are Experianced there usually on the thought level I feel sad, but locating them in the body is hard

When sitting over the weekend there was a feeling of sadness and the feeling was in the tear tucts watering. Is that what we're looking for? If so, i tried to Experiance the feelings and cried and eventually it went way. And later on that feeling of sadness was gone.

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Vivien
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Re: Looking to lose the me

Postby Vivien » Tue Jun 09, 2020 5:53 am

Hi Cole,
When sitting over the weekend there was a feeling of sadness and the feeling was in the tear tucts watering. Is that what we're looking for? If so, i tried to Experiance the feelings and cried and eventually it went way. And later on that feeling of sadness was gone.
Emotions appear as feelings IN the body. Usually in the chest area, the throat, the shoulders as contracted sensations (if they are unpleasant emotions).

Let me go back to one of your previous post.
You wrote:
Inversely Where I can create a story and use my imagination to tell you about a me..
What does the word ‘I’ point to in the above sentence?
Who/what is it that is using its imagination?
Where is the one that is imagining?

What is it that is creating the story?
Where is the creator of story?

collection of past beliefs or thoughts that I've labelled to me.
What is doing the labelling? What is it that is putting the label ‘me’ onto past beliefs?

Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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beingmetta
Posts: 42
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Re: Looking to lose the me

Postby beingmetta » Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:25 am

Hi there,
Emotions appear as feelings IN the body. Usually in the chest area, the throat, the shoulders as contracted sensations (if they are unpleasant emotions).
Ok sensations that would lead to thoughts of self

Let me go back to one of your previous post.
You wrote:
Inversely Where I can create a story and use my imagination to tell you about a me..
What does the word ‘I’ point to in the above sentence?
There is no I to create a story .. the story is that there's an I.

there just is, and thoughts that come up in that same izness

Upon looking for an I none can be found
Using sight, hearing touch, smell.
Before I'd say there was a feeling but after understanding where a feeling of me comes from in the body that can't even be recognized at this time. Just thoughts calling a thought a feeling.
I'm angry isn't coming from a feeling in the body,
it's coming from a thought of there being a me and the thought being attached to that me.



Who/what is it that is using its imagination?

There is no one Experianced ,Thoughts arise.
There is no one to control and "use" imagination.
Just thoughts about thoughts, creating a self and beliefs

Where is the one that is imagining?
There is no one that can be Experianced
There is just a isness. And thoughts arising and passing connecting thoughts and creating beliefs about about an I
What is it that is creating the story?
Thoughts are creating the story about other thoughts
There is no it
Where is the creator of story?
There is no creater that's just a belief about a Thought
collection of past beliefs or thoughts that I've labelled to me
.
What is doing the labelling?
Thoughts are labelling thoughts
What is it that is putting the label ‘me’ onto past beliefs?
A thought is labelling a belief of "me" onto another belief



In my Experiance inquiry theres an iz and I was calling that the awareness and beingness...
but saying awareness means there is someone to be aware. Being means there's a someone as well.
But there just iz... in my Experiance without labels of thoughts.
Is that iz everything arising and passing in that izness

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Vivien
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Re: Looking to lose the me

Postby Vivien » Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:54 am

Hi Cole,
Is that iz everything arising and passing in that izness
How do you know that things arising and passing IN isness?

When there is a thought present, are there two thing there: thought + isness IN which the thought arises?

Please look at this very carefully.

Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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beingmetta
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Re: Looking to lose the me

Postby beingmetta » Sat Jun 13, 2020 12:14 pm

Hi Vivien,
Is that iz everything arising and passing in that izness
In experiance there is no separation or lines where things start or end there's just the iz and then labels for everything
How do you know that things arising and passing IN isness?
in Experiance seeing, hearing, and feeling tasting. sensations that
all appear and dissapear..you see rain fall and go away, a thought pops up and dissapears a sound arrived and dissapears .. All sensations that are being labelled
When there is a thought present, are there two thing there: thought + isness IN which the thought arises?

In my Experience looking out the body there there is no separation, thoughts arise the same as the wind blowing or rain falling.



Cheers,
Cole

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Vivien
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Re: Looking to lose the me

Postby Vivien » Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:12 am

Hi Cole,
In experiance there is no separation or lines where things start or end there's just the iz and then labels for everything
What do you mean by ‘iz’ exactly?
If you could give it another name, what would it be?
V: How do you know that things arising and passing IN isness?
C: in Experiance seeing, hearing, and feeling tasting. sensations that
all appear and dissapear..you see rain fall and go away, a thought pops up and dissapears a sound arrived and dissapears .. All sensations that are being labelled
Cole, please read my above question and your reply carefully. You didn’t really look at what I was pointing at.

Please read the questions carefully.

You are making the statement that things arise IN isness. And my question is HOW do you know that things arise INSIDE isness or anything at all?

Do you see that you missed what the question was pointing to?
V: When there is a thought present, are there two thing there: thought + isness IN which the thought arises?
C: In my Experience looking out the body there there is no separation, thoughts arise the same as the wind blowing or rain falling.
The same thing happened here.

You have a belief that things arise IN izness (whatever that would be), and my questions are pointing to that belief.

So please read the question again very carefully:

When there is a thought present, are there two things there: thought + isness IN which the thought arises?
In my Experience looking out the body there there is no separation,
What do you mean by ‘looking out the body’?

Do you mean that you are inside the body, and looking out from the body and seeing the world out there, outside the body? Or something else?


Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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beingmetta
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Re: Looking to lose the me

Postby beingmetta » Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:21 am

Hi there,

Will respond tmr.



Cheers

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beingmetta
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Re: Looking to lose the me

Postby beingmetta » Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:18 am

Hi Vivien,
In experiance there is no separation or lines where things start or end there's just the iz and then labels for everything
What do you mean by ‘iz’ exactly?
If you could give it another name, what would it be?
The word that comes up is nothingness:
The reason I described it as this iz was because describing it seems to come with a belief. Where I thought iz is just what is....trying to not label but it's just another label.
V: How do you know that things arising and passing IN isness?
C: in Experiance seeing, hearing, and feeling tasting. sensations that
all appear and dissapear..you see rain fall and go away, a thought pops up and dissapears a sound arrived and dissapears .. All sensations that are being labelled
Cole, please read my above question and your reply carefully. You didn’t really look at what I was pointing at.

You are making the statement that things arise IN isness. And my question is HOW do you know that things arise INSIDE isness or anything at all?
Do you see that you missed what the question was pointing to?

I tried to describe to you how I knew through my experiance, In my inquiring when I look and see objects, there is some that seem solid(belief) and some that arise and pass; birds fly by and cars drive by.

I believe You're pointing to It is a belief that I am describing it happening in or out of something... To describe as it is In a world or /izness is not something I can prove just a Belief.


V: When there is a thought present, are there two thing there: thought + isness IN which the thought arises?
C: In my Experience looking out the body there there is no separation, thoughts arise the same as the wind blowing or rain falling.
The same thing happened here.

You have a belief that things arise IN izness (whatever that would be), and my questions are pointing to that belief.

So please read the question again very carefully:

Do you mean that you are inside the body, and looking out from the body and seeing the world out there, outside the body? Or something else?
I'll try this again.

Until this inquiry there was a BELIEF that there was an I-inside the body meaning there was a world outside of the body..
I have proved there to be no "I" that can be found in Experiance.

When I describe feelings there said to be felt IN the body, "I felt it in my hand", "I felt it outside of my skin"

Now is where I get stuck. There is this feeling....
Experience is tested Through this awareness/aliveness/nothingness... there is sensations and thoughts that are labelled creating stories/beliefs

If the I is believed there is something happening inside the body:
When there is a thought present, are there two things there: thought + isness IN which the thought arises?
In my Experience looking out the body there there is no separation,
What do you mean by ‘looking out the body’?
There was also another belief that the thought is happening in the mind. Creating another seperation. There is no "I" and there is just labels where sensations are happening leg, hand, feet

To answer that question:
When I inquire Through experiance there is this nothingness/everythingness that thoughts and everything seem to arise and pass in..now describing that it seems like a belief that they are arising and passing in "something" It cannot be Experianced where they came from or if they left
I don't know how to describe that.

When I look in Experiance at my surroundings there is only so much I see in my field of vision without looking around. Does that Mean that what I can't see doesn't excist.. or it arises when looking and passes when not.



Cheers
Cole

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Vivien
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Re: Looking to lose the me

Postby Vivien » Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:14 am

Hi Cole,
The reason I described it as this iz was because describing it seems to come with a belief. Where I thought iz is just what is....trying to not label but it's just another label.
OK. So you call WHAT IS as ‘iz’
what is = iz

I believe You're pointing to It is a belief that I am describing it happening in or out of something... To describe as it is In a world or /izness is not something I can prove just a Belief.
No. This is not what I am pointing at.

What I am pointing at is your statement:
“Everything arises and passing in izness”
But you defined iz = what is

So are you saying that everything is arising and passing INSINDE what is?
Because that’s an illusion.

A thought doesn’t arise and passing IN anything.
It doesn’t matter how you label it.
Since thoughts DON’T arise and pass in anything.
The ‘thing’ whatever you want to call it (iz / what is / awareness / aliveness / nothingness / everythingness) is simply not there.
There are only thoughts happening. That’s all.

But it seems that you believe that there is something more, something else, than a thought, and this thought appear INSIDE this something (iz / awareness / aliveness / whatever).

So what I am asking you to check in experience if this is really what is going in.
If a thought is actually APPEAR IN something, IN an awareness, IN iz, IN aliveness, IN nothingness? Or all these are just coming from a visual thought – showing some sort of empty space, where thoughts arise and pass by?

When I inquire Through experiance there is this nothingness/everythingness that thoughts and everything seem to arise and pass in….now describing that it seems like a belief that they are arising and passing in "something" It cannot be Experianced where they came from or if they left
This is exactly what I am pointing at.

Saying that everything arises and passes IN ‘something’ (whatever that be) is an imagination.
It SEEMS that way, yes.
But a SEEMING thing, is NOT a real thing.
A mirage in the desert, just SEEMS to be an oasis, but it’s not an actual, real oasis. It just SEEMS that way.
A mirage is just an imagination. Not reality.
Can you see this?
Can you see that the ‘thing’ that everything arises and passes IN is not actually there?
When I look in Experiance at my surroundings there is only so much I see in my field of vision without looking around. Does that Mean that what I can't see doesn't excist.. or it arises when looking and passes when not.
This is intellectualization.

This statement shows that the belief in in the ME is still there. And this me SEES things.
That there is a subject of experience, ME.
And objects, what is seen.

But what does this ME have to do with the notion of iz?
Are you saying that ME = iz?

There was also another belief that the thought is happening in the mind.
What is the mind in this very moment as you observe it?

Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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beingmetta
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Re: Looking to lose the me

Postby beingmetta » Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:31 am

Hi Vivien,

The reason I described it as this iz was because describing it seems to come with a belief. Where I thought iz is just what is....trying to not label but it's just another label.
OK. So you call WHAT IS as ‘iz’
what is = iz
what is- is the happening. but labeling thoughts and sensations (in) happening creates beliefs.

So are you saying that everything is arising and passing INSINDE what is?
Because that’s an illusion.
nothings happening inside anything.
the thought inside is a sticky one.


A thought doesn’t arise and passing IN anything.
It doesn’t matter how you label it.
Since thoughts DON’T arise and pass in anything.
The ‘thing’ whatever you want to call it (iz / what is / awareness / aliveness / nothingness / everythingness) is simply not there.
There are only thoughts happening. That’s all.

But it seems that you believe that there is something more, something else, than a thought, and this thought appear INSIDE this something (iz / awareness / aliveness / whatever).

So what I am asking you to check in experience if this is really what is going in.
If a thought is actually APPEAR IN something, IN an awareness, IN iz, IN aliveness, IN nothingness? Or all these are just coming from a visual thought – showing some sort of empty space, where thoughts arise and pass by?
The thoughts just happen.. Thoughts are happening sensations are happening but not TO ANYONE or IN ANYTHING..

When I inquire Through experience there is this nothingness/everythingness that thoughts and everything seem to arise and pass in….now describing that it seems like a belief that they are arising and passing in "something" It cannot be Experianced where they came from or if they left
This is exactly what I am pointing at.
Gotcha
Saying that everything arises and passes IN ‘something’ (whatever that be) is an imagination.
It SEEMS that way, yes.
But a SEEMING thing, is NOT a real thing.
A mirage in the desert, just SEEMS to be an oasis, but it’s not an actual, real oasis. It just SEEMS that way.
A mirage is just an imagination. Not reality.
no maybes/seems like...if there is thoughts or confusion its not something being confirmed in experience. Imagination is trying to fill the gaps/seemings in experience with answers. thoughts joining thoughts to create beliefs


Can you see this?
Yes i see that i must prove the oasis to be true not just believe the thoughts about it.
Can you see that the ‘thing’ that everything arises and passes IN is not actually there?
There IS NO-THING that everything arises and passes in

When I look in Experience at my surroundings there is only so much I see in my field of vision without looking around. Does that Mean that what I can't see doesn't excist.. or it arises when looking and passes when not.
This is intellectualization.
This statement shows that the belief in in the ME is still there. And this me SEES things.
That there is a subject of experience, ME.
And objects, what is seen.

There is no I, nothing to see out of, or around.

But what does this ME have to do with the notion of iz?
Are you saying that ME = iz?
That would be another belief about a thought. connecting a belief about me with another thought about iz
There was also another belief that the thought is happening in the mind.
What is the mind in this very moment as you observe it?
The mind is a label not something that i can experience but a thought.

Vivien

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Vivien
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Location: Australia

Re: Looking to lose the me

Postby Vivien » Mon Jun 22, 2020 4:16 am

Hi Cole,
nothings happening inside anything.
the thought inside is a sticky one.
And where does this thought sticking to?
The thoughts just happen.. Thoughts are happening sensations are happening but not TO ANYONE or IN ANYTHING..
How much of this is seen to be an experiential fact, and how much of it is just an intellectual understanding? 50/50? Less? More?

Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/


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