Looking to lose the me

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Vivien
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Re: Looking to lose the me

Postby Vivien » Thu May 07, 2020 7:43 am

Hi Cole,
Because its not real that can be confirmed with experience
Yes, exactly.
Thoughts cannot be experience, because they are not real.
This is a very important discovery.

So thoughts cannot be touched, seen, tasted, smelled, because thoughts are NOT REAL.

Let me repeat.

Thoughts are just concepts. Not real, actual, existing things. Just conceptual ideas.

Not matter what a thought is about, it’s always just an imagination. An illusion. Why? Well, try grabbing one. Try touching it. Try holding onto a thought.

Is this totally clear that no matter what a thought is about it’s always just an imagination and not an actual, real thing?

Make sure that you are 100% certain of your reply.
If you have even just a slightest doubt, let me know.


So, there is either EXPERIENCE (sound, color, taste, smell, sensation)
or
IMAGINATION = THINKING.
Or is there a third option?

So a cup is either imagined / thought of, or experienced. Can a cup appear any other way than an imagination or as an experience?


Please look very carefully. First imagine/think of a cup, then experience a cup, and then try a third option.
Let me know what you’ve found.

Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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beingmetta
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Re: Looking to lose the me

Postby beingmetta » Fri May 08, 2020 10:26 am

Carefully reviewing with reply soon
Cheers

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Vivien
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Re: Looking to lose the me

Postby Vivien » Fri May 08, 2020 10:36 am

All right, thank you for letting me know.

Have a nice day :)
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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beingmetta
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Re: Looking to lose the me

Postby beingmetta » Sat May 09, 2020 9:57 am

Is this totally clear that no matter what a thought is about it’s always just an imagination and not an actual, real thing
Yes, it is totally clear to me. That I cannot Experiance thoughts and the stories. With smell taste feeling seeing and hearing

Make sure that you are 100% certain of your reply.
If you have even just a slightest doubt, let me know.
So, there is either EXPERIENCE (sound, color, taste, smell, sensation)
or
IMAGINATION = THINKING.
Or is there a third option?
There is no Third option I can Experiance or think about the cup.
So a cup is either imagined / thought of, or experienced. Can a cup appear any other way than an imagination or as an experience?
either we think it or Experiance it
Please look very carefully. First imagine/think of a cup, then experience a cup, and then try a third option.
Let me know what you’ve found
When I think of a cup the stories and beliefs come up
When I grab a cup or look at a cup i experience it
I cannot come up with a third option with out thinking so that's why the two options work for me


Cheers
thanks for you're time.

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Vivien
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Re: Looking to lose the me

Postby Vivien » Sat May 09, 2020 10:35 am

Hi Cole,

You did a great looking :) As it’s now clear what is the difference between experience and thinking/imagining, let’s start to look for the self.

As you go about your everyday life, how does the self/I/me show up?

What is it like? What is it made of? Does it have a shape or a color? How big it is? And where is its exact location?

What does the word I actually point to? If you take a finger and land it on I, where does it land?
Can you see, smell, hear, taste, touch the I? Try it, with each sense.


Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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beingmetta
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Re: Looking to lose the me

Postby beingmetta » Mon May 11, 2020 8:21 am

Hello,

As you go about your everyday life, how does the self/I/me show up?
when the self comes into play for me it starts with a thought or idea.
"I" am doing this
This happened to "me"
Why do "I" do that


What is it like? What is it made of? Does it have a shape or a color? How big it is? And where is its exact location?
when the self comes up it's belief
I cannot Experiance the self as it is an idea/ Imagination
I can't touch it
see it
taste it or
smell it

What does the word I actually point to? If you take a finger and land it on I, where does it land?
Can you see, smell, hear, taste, touch the I? Try it, with each sense.
The word "I" points To a story/belief
If you take a finger it lands on imagination
I cannot see hear taste or touch "I"

Cheers

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Vivien
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Re: Looking to lose the me

Postby Vivien » Mon May 11, 2020 10:30 am

Hi Cole,
when the self comes up it's belief
I cannot Experiance the self as it is an idea/ Imagination
How much of this is an intellectual understanding, and how much of if it actually seen experienctially? 50/50? Less? More?

What about the story of Cole? There is a story about Cole, right?
But where is Cole right now? Is Cole the body? Is he IN the body? Can Cole be felt or touched?

There is a story ABOUT Cole, who is the main character, right? But what does word Cole point to in reality?

Can the thought Cole think?

Can a thought want?
Or there are only thoughts ABOUT thinking and wanting?

Is Cole in charge of the story about Cole?

Does he make the story go the way he wants it to go?


Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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beingmetta
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Re: Looking to lose the me

Postby beingmetta » Tue May 12, 2020 5:49 am

Hello,
when the self comes up it's belief
I cannot Experiance the self as it is an idea/ Imagination
How much of this is an intellectual understanding, and how much of if it actually seen experienctially? 50/50? Less? More?
I did find this to be difficult, There is a story of cole that i have believed and intellectually i feel like i need that story to live life. Have a job, id cards, bank accounts. When cole comes up its usually an identity for society..
But im stuck on I Cannot experience any intellectual understanding of thought with experience so it labels to things. that i'm experiencing which are not real
What about the story of Cole? There is a story about Cole, right?\
Yes there is a story, the story is 100 imagination Its thought. and thought cannot be experienced
But where is Cole right now? Is Cole the body? Is he IN the body? Can Cole be felt or touched?
But where is Cole right now?
Cole the story doesn't exist so it cant be experienced

Is Cole the body?
No Cole cannot be experienced as the body

Is he IN the body?
A story cannot be experienced in the body

Can Cole be felt or touched?
A story cannot be felt or touched. only identified with

There is a story ABOUT Cole, who is the main character, right? But what does word Cole point to in reality?
Yes there is a story about cole, But the word points to emptiness
Can the thought Cole think?
No. that would be another thought
Can a thought want?
No a thought is just a thought
Or there are only thoughts ABOUT thinking and wanting?
There can only be thoughts about thoughts
Is Cole in charge of the story about Cole?
The thought cole being in charge of the story about cole is just another thought
Does he make the story go the way he wants it to go?
That is a thought about a thought

This one Definitely was hard to experience
Cheers

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Vivien
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Re: Looking to lose the me

Postby Vivien » Tue May 12, 2020 7:23 am

Hi Cole,
There is a story of cole that i have believed
What is it exactly that is believing in the story of cole?
Is there another self/I believing in the story of Cole?
intellectually i feel like i need that story to live life.
Intellectually FEELS like? Can anything be intellectually felt?
Look closely. Do you see that this is not a feeling/sensation but a thought?

i need that story to live life.
What is it exactly that needs that story?
How many selves do you have? Cole + the one that needs the story?
Do you believe that there is another self/you outside of the story, needing the story?

What is it that is living life? What does life happening to?
Is there a you outside of the story that life is happening to?
Have a job, id cards, bank accounts.
What is it that owns or have a job, cards, bank account? What owns them? Where is the owner?
Have a job, id cards, bank accounts. When cole comes up its usually an identity for society..
Do you believe or expect that the story about Cole will go away when the self is seen through?

What does the story belong TO?
And what does the story is happening TO?

But im stuck on I Cannot experience any intellectual understanding of thought with experience so it labels to things. that i'm experiencing which are not real
Could you please clarify the above sentence?
A story cannot be felt or touched. only identified with
And what is it precisely that identifies with the story?

What is it that needs an identity?

What does identity stick to? What is it that it hooks onto?
What is the glue of identity made of?

Yes there is a story about cole, But the word points to emptiness
Emptiness? – you are not looking.

Is there such thing in realty as emptiness? Or emptiness is just a concept?

Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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beingmetta
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Re: Looking to lose the me

Postby beingmetta » Tue May 12, 2020 11:38 pm

Hi,
There is a story of cole that i have believed
What is it exactly that is believing in the story of cole?
There is a story of cole, that was previously identified with by "I"
That story was reinforced by others, looking at the character They would say Hi cole,
When the character was asked for identification he would share the drivers licences,

Now Taking this back to experience there is no "I" that can be experienced its an intellectual belief
But the story still is there, This is confusing when its outside of my experience
If there is no self in "I" how can there be a self in others. So the story is not real. But still the character cole exists.

Completely lost in thought now....
Is there another self/I believing in the story of Cole?
There cannot be a self, so there cannot be another self. it comes back to trying to describe a story of a character but intellectually i cant explain how others recognize the character cole.
which i know were not supposed to do anything but experience.

Completely lost.

intellectually i feel like i need that story to live life.
Intellectually FEELS like? Can anything be intellectually felt?
Look closely. Do you see that this is not a feeling/sensation but a thought?
This is again a language barrier, experiance cannot describe the character in this story that has a "life" "responsibilities" as he doesnt excist...
thought trying to explain thought

There is no feelings or sensations in a thought- i Understand this fully as they cannot be experienced.


i need that story to live life.
What is it exactly that needs that story?
Again confusing how to describe the character Cole that exists in society. But i know there is no truth to story's..
How many selves do you have? Cole + the one that needs the story?
I know that there is no such thing as self. because thats a thought.
Do you believe that there is another self/you outside of the story, needing the story?
I cannot confirm this with experience but I am thoroughly confused

What is it that is living life? What does life happening to?
There is a character that exists

Is there a you outside of the story that life is happening to?
there is no I, so nothing can be happening to it as its outside of experience

What is it that owns or have a job, cards, bank account? What owns them? Where is the owner?
I cannot experience it.... but that doesn't change the confusion. That "i" can experience this "thing" called an id card i can touch and see that has labels on it that say a name and has a picture that when people see that they would be able to experience seeing the same experience.

When cole comes up its usually an identity for society..
Do you believe or expect that the story about Cole will go away when the self is seen through?
I dont belive there is a self to identify with but its confusing to me that experience shows me there is no self but there is a story of cole that will be recognized...



What does the story belong TO?
the story belongs to a thought
And what does the story is happening TO?
When a story cant really happen as its not true. so its a thought about a thought
But im stuck on I Cannot experience any intellectual understanding of thought with experience so it labels to things. that i'm experiencing which are not real
Could you please clarify the above sentence?
Cole is a story when people see cole they see the character that is writing this message right now "i" don't understand how to explain that character not being connected with "my" experience but somehow its a story that still excists


A story cannot be felt or touched. only identified with
And what is it precisely that identifies with the story?
Nothing can be identified with a story as its not real. But the story still excists
What is it that needs an identity?
what starts out as a thought, then develops more thoughts and experiences and beliefs and then this thing is labelled as an identity with a name
What does identity stick to? What is it that it hooks onto?
The story/thought
What is the glue of identity made of?
Thoughts
Yes there is a story about cole, But the word points to emptiness
Emptiness? – you are not looking.
There is no truth behind the story cole as it cannot be experanced other then thoughts and imagination
Is there such thing in realty as emptiness? Or emptiness is just a concept?
emptiness is a label to describe nothing because you cannot experience a self or a story. so its empty/void not experience.



I've found this to be confusing. there is no way to experience these things "but they do happen".. if the character cole exists but cant be identified with it because it cant be experienced its not real. then experience is left over but we follow the story of cole around?...
Please send help haha


Cheers

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Vivien
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Re: Looking to lose the me

Postby Vivien » Wed May 13, 2020 1:47 am

Hi Cole,

You are mentioning several times how others perceive Cole. But that can happen only in thinking, not in looking. Can you see this?
There cannot be a self, so there cannot be another self.
This is coming from logical thinking, not from looking.
it comes back to trying to describe a story of a character but intellectually i cant explain how others recognize the character cole.
This is also thinking and not looking.

How do you know that others recognize the same and real, existing Cole, and not just they also have a STORY ABOUT their version of Cole?

Can you see that your reasoning is purely intellectual? That it’s just a thinking?
So the story is not real. But still the character cole exists.
The story is not real, yes. But does the Cole-character real? How do you know that?

Just because others also have STORIES about Cole, do their stories make Cole into a real person?

Just because there is a story about Batman, does that story makes Batman into a real person?

Does the Cole-character exist outside of the story about it?


You have to look for it.

You say that Cole exists. But WHERE? – you literally have to search for it, as if you were searching for your keys.
if the character cole exists but cant be identified with it because it cant be experienced its not real.
WHERE does the character Cole exist? WHERE? Show it to me!

Take your finger (literally) and point to the character. Where is your finger pointing?

Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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beingmetta
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Re: Looking to lose the me

Postby beingmetta » Thu May 14, 2020 12:13 am

Hellllo,
You are mentioning several times how others perceive Cole. But that can happen only in thinking, not in looking. Can you see this?
Others perceiving Cole cannot be verified through direct Experiance.




There cannot be a self, so there cannot be another self.
This is coming from logical thinking, not from looking.
Well I cannot Experiance a self within "I"
Cannot touch, Hear or see an I.

it comes back to trying to describe a story of a character but intellectually i cant explain how others recognize the character cole.
This is also thinking and not looking.
I'm looking for Experiance and i cant find it
How do you know that others recognize the same and real, existing Cole, and not just they also have a STORY ABOUT their version of Cole?
it would be a belief that others recognize the same story of a real existing cole. A story about a story.
Can I prove that they just have a story about Cole, through direct Experiance. No
Can you see that your reasoning is purely intellectual? That it’s just a thinking?
Yes I cannot Experiance it so all that's left is imagination but the story I've told myself cannot believe that Cole isn't real because it can't explain that.

So when I go to Experiance and all that appears are story's I cannot describe Experiance anymore I don't know what to say.
I'm not sure the correct way to describe it.


So the story is not real. But still the character cole exists.
The story is not real, yes. But does the Cole-character real? How do you know that?
I cannot confirm with Experiance the story of Cole is real. So it's just a story/imagination
Just because others also have STORIES about Cole, do their stories make Cole into a real person?
No, they are just more stories about a storie
That cannot be confirmed with Experiance

Just because there is a story about Batman, does that story makes Batman into a real person?
No you cannot confirm a storie, by a story and call it Experiance
A story cannot be confirmed by Experiance


Does the Cole-character exist outside of the story about it?
when looking i cannot Experiance a story so i cant Experiance a story outside of a story. After looking for it I cannot touch this story that I labelled as Cole..
You say that Cole exists. But WHERE? – you literally have to search for it, as if you were searching for your keys.
if the character cole exists but cant be identified with it because it cant be experienced its not real.
WHERE does the character Cole exist? WHERE? Show it to me
upon searching for it like my keys I couldn't search for Cole as Cole is only a label or identify created out of a story..as it's just a story not Experiancable, nothing to touch or smell
Take your finger (literally) and point to the character. Where is your finger pointing
when I point to the character I have called Cole the thing I call a finger points at emptiness cause it cannot be Experianced

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beingmetta
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Re: Looking to lose the me

Postby beingmetta » Thu May 14, 2020 12:51 am

I keep coming to this I can't understand idea. Which shows me Im Trying to think rather then Experiance. But I understand the idea of the there is no doer, but things are still done as a concept but I don't know how to Experiance that I'm stuck on stories and thoughts attached to labels

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Vivien
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Re: Looking to lose the me

Postby Vivien » Thu May 14, 2020 3:56 am

Hi Cole,
Which shows me Im Trying to think rather then Experiance.
Yes, your replies are coming from thinking and not investigating experience itself.
Unfortunately, it’s not enough to learn the information that the self cannot be experienced then it doesn’t exist.
This seeing cannot happen by accepting it as a new idea or a belief.
This cannot be learned. It can only be seen experientially.
I keep coming to this I can't understand idea.
This is not an idea to understand.
You have to stop trying to understanding it. Understanding can happen only intellectually, only in thinking.
Which is utterly useless in this investigation.

Let’s try to see what is the difference between experience and thinking.

Do you drink coffee or tea? Next time when you drink it, please investigate what is the difference between thinking about coffee and experiencing the coffee.

Is it possible to look at the coffee without thinking “this is a coffee, and I’m going to drink t”? Is it possible to EXPERIENCE it only by looking at it and SEEING it without thinking about it?

And when you take a sip, is it possible to just FEEL the warmth of it, without analysing and thinking why it’s warm, and how long will it stay warm?

And is it possible just to experience the TASTE of it, without analysing it, or thinking how bitter it is, or whether it needs some sweetener or not?

Is it possible to EXPERIENCE the SMELL of the coffee, without thinking “this smell reminds me of his or that”?


I would like to ask you to really try this out in reality, and not just think it through. In other words, not just think about it!
But of course, thoughts about it might happen! But that’s all right. You just ignore the thoughts, and you turn your attention to experiencing.

Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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beingmetta
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Re: Looking to lose the me

Postby beingmetta » Fri May 15, 2020 12:13 am

Hi,
This cannot be learned. It can only be seen experientially.
looking through Experiance got it
Do you drink coffee or tea? Next time when you drink it, please investigate what is the difference between thinking about coffee and experiencing the coffee
. Yes I drink slurpees!
Is it possible to look at the coffee without thinking “this is a coffee, and I’m going to drink t”? Is it possible to EXPERIENCE it only by looking at it and SEEING it without thinking about it?
yes it is possible to drink a slurpee without labelling it
Yes it is possible to Experiance it and see it without thinking
And when you take a sip, is it possible to just FEEL the warmth of it, without analysing and thinking why it’s warm, and how long will it stay warm?
yes I can take a sip and feel the cold in it without thinking this is cold.
And is it possible just to experience the TASTE of it, without analysing it, or thinking how bitter it is, or whether it needs some sweetener or not?
yes I can taste a slurpee without coming up with stories about it to bring sour or having to label the Experiance.
Is it possible to EXPERIENCE the SMELL of the coffee, without thinking “this smell reminds me of his or that”
yes I can Experiance smell without needing to label it or think about it


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