LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
We all have a sense of self. It is built on our thoughts, feelings, perceptions, body sensations, etc. But it is not real in any meaningful sense. The self were so attached to is just an ever changing construct, a socially conditioned thought habit. There is no real solid permanent, unchanging self that runs our life. Life just happens
What are you looking for at LU?
I've been in the process of awakening since early January this year. Both through books, videos and personal guidance, through one of your guides who I met elsewhere online. Crashed the gate about a month ago.
At this point, I'm just wanting a forum to ask questions and share experiences. Also to clarify some aspects of this world view. I've already passed through some early shaky doubtful days, and some arising thought storms that resulted. Feeling basically happy, stable, and ordinary now. Living in the moment mostly. But I also know that there will be challenging times, as conditioned thinking and behavior reassert themselves. So, dialogue, self expression, questioning, occassionally advice. Just a bigger circle of discussion and feedback. Perhaps at some point to be a guide, though not yet
What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I'm not sure I need a guided conversation at this point, but will gladly answer any questions. Mostly want the ability to post on the forum. I'm just going to X out the remaining 200 characters xxxxx
What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
Varied. Raised Southern Baptist, atheist through reading at 17, born again Christian at 25, with a genuine core experience, disillusioned in church within a few years, but stayed in it for a couple decades to raise kids, Jungian studies/DreamWorks, therapy, finally working through Christianity from a progressive angle in an intelligent group setting, agnosticism, marijuana as a substitute for meaning/Aliveness, finally neo Advaita readings, Robert Saltzman- skeptic and brilliant awakened author became my main literary mentor. Met V.S., an Aussie former guide from your site, and he escorted me the rest of the way through the gate
On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
11
Exploring a new country
Re: Exploring a new country
Hi
I want to check what you're looking for here - as it sounds like you've already "gated" - is that correct? But perhaps not gone through the process of being checked here?
Can you let me know - and then i'll be clearer about how I might help you with your next steps
With best wishes,
Sioned
I want to check what you're looking for here - as it sounds like you've already "gated" - is that correct? But perhaps not gone through the process of being checked here?
Can you let me know - and then i'll be clearer about how I might help you with your next steps
With best wishes,
Sioned
Re: Exploring a new country
Hi, yes I have already gated as I understand that word. That culminated about a month or more ago. I haven't been "checked" yet, whatever is involved with that. I have read both of the books on this site and worked through the exercises, as well as having read a number of other books on these topics. I am here mostly to have a space to share experiences and questions with others who may have a deeper understanding, more experience in living in this new country. So looking for discussion, exploration, sometimes guidance. Others perspectives on what it is to be awake. Philosophical and practical exploration and dialogue. What do I need to do to be "checked out?"
Re: Exploring a new country
Glancing over some of the other conversations here, it looks like this forum is primarily for the purpose of guiding people through the gate. And that is not really my need right now. I was looking for a place where there can be more of an ongoing exploration of the philosophy and experience of life from this new perspective. I am happy to be "checked out" if that is required, but have also been through personal mentoring through the gate with one of your former guides, so I met elsewhere. What I am looking for is discussion with others who are experiencing life as awakening people. I feel I have a lot to learn yet and could benefit from some peer discussion. This may not be the proper place for that?
Re: Exploring a new country
Hi there,
You're right, that this isn't the right forum for what you're after. But of course that may well not have been apparent to you, so it was probably a good place to start.
What you'll need to do, in order to access the forums that will be of more assistance to you, is to do our final questions and be checked by a senior guide. I can take you through that, if you're up for it.
Let me know?
Sioned
You're right, that this isn't the right forum for what you're after. But of course that may well not have been apparent to you, so it was probably a good place to start.
What you'll need to do, in order to access the forums that will be of more assistance to you, is to do our final questions and be checked by a senior guide. I can take you through that, if you're up for it.
Let me know?
Sioned
Re: Exploring a new country
Sure, let's do that
Re: Exploring a new country
Great! Coming up shortly!
What should I call you, by the way?
What should I call you, by the way?
Re: Exploring a new country
Here are the questions. Answers don't need to be long, and should be from direct experience.
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was
there ever?
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from
your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?
Please report from the past few days.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen?
How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
6) Anything to add?
xx
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was
there ever?
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from
your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?
Please report from the past few days.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen?
How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
6) Anything to add?
xx
Re: Exploring a new country
Here are the questions. Answers don't need to be long, and should be from direct experience.
First, I have to say I painstakingly pecked all the answers out on my phone. then went back to make a couple of corrections, and somehow all my hard work disappeared. ARRGH. Life is not Fair! WAAH! But I am fine. I should receive a pass just for doing this twice!! ;-)
]1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was
there ever?
What I see when I look at my experience is thoughts, feelings, and perceptions arising in the moment and passing, changing. I do not see an I. There are many things I used to take for an I and believed in that strongly. All about becoming a better I, struggling to be more loving, less greedy or scared, kinder to myself or others. I believed in this for almost my entire life, and that I was the focus.
I would say that similar habitual thoughts and feelings, personality parts, still arise. They are quite familiar. I just don't identify with them being me. They are the clouds in the sky, ever changing, passing, clearing up, clouding over. Whats different now is that there is just the sense that all of these things just happen. There is no I choosing, controlling, making things happen. I do not Like everything that happens, like loosing all my hard work typing one letter at a time on my phone. I yelled. Arggghhh! Then I felt resignation, laughed, and here I am at a computer keyboard doing it all over
Was there ever an I? I certainly would have answered adamantly YES until a couple of months ago. Now, I see that I character as hypnotic cultural conditioning
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from
your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
I can't really remember infancy, but I do believe that is where the I starts, years one to three along with the acquisition of language, concepts, and the early civilizing Expectations that parents put on their children. The parents have their own well developed I's and do their best to pass this on to children. Don't cry or scream. Don't poop your pants. Be a good boy. Conditional acceptance that transfers to the child. I'm partly OK and lovable and partly not. I need to change and control myself or I won't be loved by the all powerful. Seeing I as a doer that has to change itself to be acceptable. Pull myself up by my own bootstraps. And all the guilt, shame, anger, inadequacy that goes with that.
That had been my story up to recently. Fix yourself. What a paradox! Judging every arising thought, feeling, impulse and action and coming up short. But it can always be medicated by distraction, business, achievments, drugs or alcohol. I saw myself as a product of my own making, that came up short.
What I experience now is a moment by moment arising of thoughts, feelings and perceptions. Some pleasant. Some not. They are not in my control, and never really were. This is all just happening. So may as well just notice. Theres really nothing else to do, and no one to do it.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?
Please report from the past few days.
The difference is enormous and also no difference at all. Enormous in that the pressure of believing there was an I in charge of things is largely gone. The judgment is either gone, or comes up as a habitual thought, and slides on by, after a brief period of attachment perhaps. Life just is. Its the same in that the habitual thoughts and feelings do come up. They are familiar, what I used to call me. Everything is the same, except I'm not identified with it anymore, beyond a few seconds or minutes. These thoughts and feelings are not me, just habitual and passing thoughts. I Am here, as an observing, participating person. I am just not making anything happen or in charge of any outcomes. The lost half hour of phone typing would be a current example. Good stuff happens, bad stuff happens. Stuff just happens. May as well take it lightly with a laugh and enjoy where possible
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?
I was working with a mentor Id met elsewhere online. 2 things he said made a big difference. I asked him about the part of me that was an observer or witness. I had gotten to that point where I was mostly just watching/noticing what was going on within me and the observer character seemed real. He asked me to put on some music I really liked, close my eyes and listen and notice what happened with the observer. I paid close attention and read his instructions a couple of times, then put on a Van Morrison song I loved. Within seconds, I was bobbing to the music, feeling it all over my body, practically singing it, and then it ended. Came back to his instructions - Where was the observer, what did you notice about it? There was No observer or witness at all during that song. Nothing but the ecstasy and participation in the song. No observer. That's just another split off construct like the I. There is just This. Happening.
The final piece. I was just about there, but was like really looking forward to when the volume of the internal dialogue would go down, the annoying habitual self chatter. He asked me what it would be like when I was no longer waiting for anything. It struck a chord. Why am I waiting? What am I waiting for? This is all there is. This, right here.
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen?
How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
Being retired and in lockdown, there is not much required of me in life at this point. Just choices as how to spend the day, what to do next, whether to exercise or do some odd job, or read a book, or watch TV, etc. The exercise thing did bother me for a bit. Dialogue about whether I Should, and did I want to? Internal arguing about being healthy and being unmotivated. Bugged me for a bit. Then I just started accepting that there were competing drives in me, and one would win out if I let it. Let the arguing just be the noise of self talk, and accept what wins out. That's resulted in some days totally goofing off. some days hiking in the foothills. some days working on needed tasks. A few afternoons enjoying a THC gummie or a beer. It all gets done as needed. No need for drama or taking control. If something is required I do it.
6) Anything to add?
I have spent most of my life quite introverted. Partly my nature. Partly a defensive tactic due to so much inner turmoil and negative self image. Now I'm feeling much more open to others, and wouldn't you know, we're all socially isolating. Also, even if we weren't theres not many people I can talk over these ideas or experiences with. They'd simply be annoyed or think Im crazy. So that's what prompted me to come here to have the possibility of talking with others who would understand. Also others further along in their experience of this new country to me. I still have questions and just need some dialogue with others who would understand
First, I have to say I painstakingly pecked all the answers out on my phone. then went back to make a couple of corrections, and somehow all my hard work disappeared. ARRGH. Life is not Fair! WAAH! But I am fine. I should receive a pass just for doing this twice!! ;-)
]1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was
there ever?
What I see when I look at my experience is thoughts, feelings, and perceptions arising in the moment and passing, changing. I do not see an I. There are many things I used to take for an I and believed in that strongly. All about becoming a better I, struggling to be more loving, less greedy or scared, kinder to myself or others. I believed in this for almost my entire life, and that I was the focus.
I would say that similar habitual thoughts and feelings, personality parts, still arise. They are quite familiar. I just don't identify with them being me. They are the clouds in the sky, ever changing, passing, clearing up, clouding over. Whats different now is that there is just the sense that all of these things just happen. There is no I choosing, controlling, making things happen. I do not Like everything that happens, like loosing all my hard work typing one letter at a time on my phone. I yelled. Arggghhh! Then I felt resignation, laughed, and here I am at a computer keyboard doing it all over
Was there ever an I? I certainly would have answered adamantly YES until a couple of months ago. Now, I see that I character as hypnotic cultural conditioning
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from
your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
I can't really remember infancy, but I do believe that is where the I starts, years one to three along with the acquisition of language, concepts, and the early civilizing Expectations that parents put on their children. The parents have their own well developed I's and do their best to pass this on to children. Don't cry or scream. Don't poop your pants. Be a good boy. Conditional acceptance that transfers to the child. I'm partly OK and lovable and partly not. I need to change and control myself or I won't be loved by the all powerful. Seeing I as a doer that has to change itself to be acceptable. Pull myself up by my own bootstraps. And all the guilt, shame, anger, inadequacy that goes with that.
That had been my story up to recently. Fix yourself. What a paradox! Judging every arising thought, feeling, impulse and action and coming up short. But it can always be medicated by distraction, business, achievments, drugs or alcohol. I saw myself as a product of my own making, that came up short.
What I experience now is a moment by moment arising of thoughts, feelings and perceptions. Some pleasant. Some not. They are not in my control, and never really were. This is all just happening. So may as well just notice. Theres really nothing else to do, and no one to do it.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?
Please report from the past few days.
The difference is enormous and also no difference at all. Enormous in that the pressure of believing there was an I in charge of things is largely gone. The judgment is either gone, or comes up as a habitual thought, and slides on by, after a brief period of attachment perhaps. Life just is. Its the same in that the habitual thoughts and feelings do come up. They are familiar, what I used to call me. Everything is the same, except I'm not identified with it anymore, beyond a few seconds or minutes. These thoughts and feelings are not me, just habitual and passing thoughts. I Am here, as an observing, participating person. I am just not making anything happen or in charge of any outcomes. The lost half hour of phone typing would be a current example. Good stuff happens, bad stuff happens. Stuff just happens. May as well take it lightly with a laugh and enjoy where possible
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?
I was working with a mentor Id met elsewhere online. 2 things he said made a big difference. I asked him about the part of me that was an observer or witness. I had gotten to that point where I was mostly just watching/noticing what was going on within me and the observer character seemed real. He asked me to put on some music I really liked, close my eyes and listen and notice what happened with the observer. I paid close attention and read his instructions a couple of times, then put on a Van Morrison song I loved. Within seconds, I was bobbing to the music, feeling it all over my body, practically singing it, and then it ended. Came back to his instructions - Where was the observer, what did you notice about it? There was No observer or witness at all during that song. Nothing but the ecstasy and participation in the song. No observer. That's just another split off construct like the I. There is just This. Happening.
The final piece. I was just about there, but was like really looking forward to when the volume of the internal dialogue would go down, the annoying habitual self chatter. He asked me what it would be like when I was no longer waiting for anything. It struck a chord. Why am I waiting? What am I waiting for? This is all there is. This, right here.
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen?
How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
Being retired and in lockdown, there is not much required of me in life at this point. Just choices as how to spend the day, what to do next, whether to exercise or do some odd job, or read a book, or watch TV, etc. The exercise thing did bother me for a bit. Dialogue about whether I Should, and did I want to? Internal arguing about being healthy and being unmotivated. Bugged me for a bit. Then I just started accepting that there were competing drives in me, and one would win out if I let it. Let the arguing just be the noise of self talk, and accept what wins out. That's resulted in some days totally goofing off. some days hiking in the foothills. some days working on needed tasks. A few afternoons enjoying a THC gummie or a beer. It all gets done as needed. No need for drama or taking control. If something is required I do it.
6) Anything to add?
I have spent most of my life quite introverted. Partly my nature. Partly a defensive tactic due to so much inner turmoil and negative self image. Now I'm feeling much more open to others, and wouldn't you know, we're all socially isolating. Also, even if we weren't theres not many people I can talk over these ideas or experiences with. They'd simply be annoyed or think Im crazy. So that's what prompted me to come here to have the possibility of talking with others who would understand. Also others further along in their experience of this new country to me. I still have questions and just need some dialogue with others who would understand
Re: Exploring a new country
Oh, and call me Charles. Thanks for your time and concern. <3
Re: Exploring a new country
That's lovely to read, Charles, thank you for persevering with it.
I'll post your answers for checking shortly. Sometimes the senior guide can find back with further questions, someone's not. I'll keep you posted!
Generally there's a delay of a day or two at this point.
X Sioned
I'll post your answers for checking shortly. Sometimes the senior guide can find back with further questions, someone's not. I'll keep you posted!
Generally there's a delay of a day or two at this point.
X Sioned
Re: Exploring a new country
Thank you!
Re: Exploring a new country
Hi Charles,
You've been confirmed.
You'll get a private message on this site advising you re follow-up options. Look out for it!
And best wishes
Sionef
You've been confirmed.
You'll get a private message on this site advising you re follow-up options. Look out for it!
And best wishes
Sionef
Re: Exploring a new country
Still waiting for a follow up email
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