Freedom to be!

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Ilona
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Re: Freedom to be!

Postby Ilona » Wed Apr 22, 2020 7:47 pm

No rush with answering. I invite you to spend a day with these questions. To really look and see what is true. Now your answers come quickly from what you have learned, but not from seeing. So I leave you with the same questions for now, investigate.

Write tomorrow. And for now, rest..

Love.

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Eric001
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Re: Freedom to be!

Postby Eric001 » Wed Apr 22, 2020 7:55 pm

Ok, thank you for clarifying that.

Good night from Thailand!
<3 :-) /e

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Eric001
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Re: Freedom to be!

Postby Eric001 » Thu Apr 23, 2020 3:16 pm

Dear Ilona,

here comes a new attempt at looking into the questions.
The thoughts are saying that there is Eric talking to himself. That’s a nice thought. But let’s see, where is Eric? Is there direct experience of Eric? By direct experience I mean simply experience that is happening right now. Here now. Where is Eric? How do you know if Eric is here or is not here? Can you see, hear, smell, touch, feel, sense him?
No there is nothing about Eric that is directly sensed. Only the thoughts arising claiming to be the character Eric.
Is Eric more than a thought?
Not really. Even if there are feelings/emotions that seem to somehow be linked to the thoughts of Eric, all such association is based on interpretation and are not direct experience.
What does thought Eric point to in actuality?
Nothing but thought constructs.
Does Eric think? Or Eric is a thought?
Eric is a thought


Love from Thailand!
<3 :-) /e

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Ilona
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Re: Freedom to be!

Postby Ilona » Thu Apr 23, 2020 3:30 pm

Great work!
Now let’s take a look at language itself and how the illusion of a doer / an entity is created.
Here is an exercise http://markedeternal.blogspot.com/2012/05/labels.html
Do this on paper or here and notice, how description affects what is happening and how it affects how you feel about what is happening. How does the body react?

Is label I necessary for description? Does experience loose anything when it is expressed with verbs alone?

Write your observations

Love.

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Eric001
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Re: Freedom to be!

Postby Eric001 » Fri Apr 24, 2020 5:44 pm

Hi Ilone

and thanks for the excellent exercise. Spent 10 + 10 minutes writing the following:

Step 1:

I am sitting in a chair
I feel the soft pillow under my bottom
I hear crickets singing
I hear frogs making load sounds
I have a taste of honey in my mouth
I see the fairy lights shining
I take a deep breath
I feel tension in my neck and shoulders
I feel my right foot heavily on the floor
I scratch the back of my head
I notice the wait of my glasses on my nose
I feel thirsty
I drink water
I savour the freshness in my mouth
I notice a straining sensation behind my right eye
I hear a branch drop to the ground i the forrest
I look into the darkness outside my porch
I hear voices from the neighbours house i front
I feel the wait of the computer in my lap
I check the time on my watch
I realise 10 minutes have past


Step 2:

Breathing
Typing text
Waiting
Hearing frogs
Correcting
Hearing frogs and crickets
Feeling a pinch on the skin
Feeling wait and warmth from the computer
Hearing the water pumping
The neck stretching
Waiting for next thought
Feeling feet on the floor
Waiting for next thought
Typing text
Thoughts arising of the fingers
Sensing an itch on right hand
Sensing forehead relaxing
Hearing a load frog
Feeling at ease
Breathing deeply
Enjoying the silence
Hearing a phone blip
Enjoying calmness
Breathing a deeper breath
Clearing throat
Scratching forehead
Checking the time
Writing last text

Do this on paper or here and notice, how description affects what is happening and how it affects how you feel about what is happening. How does the body react?
The body (and the mind) relaxes when using only verbs
Is label I necessary for description?
No. The descriptions actually become much more direct and even poetic when no "I" labeling is used
Does experience loose anything when it is expressed with verbs alone?
No, quite the opposite the experience is actually more alive


Love from Kho Phangan!
<3 :-) /e

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Ilona
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Re: Freedom to be!

Postby Ilona » Sat Apr 25, 2020 5:22 pm

Sweet, great work.
I see you got the point of this exercise. Good
Next— bahyia sutra.
play with this view. Seehow everything looks through it.
And write what you notice. What questions arise? What looks different?

***

In the seen, there is only the seen,
in the heard, there is only the heard,
in the sensed, there is only the sensed,
in the cognized, there is only the cognized.
Thus you should see that
indeed there is no thing here;
this, Bahiya, is how you should train yourself.
Since, Bahiya, there is for you
in the seen, only the seen,
in the heard, only the heard,
in the sensed, only the sensed,
in the cognized, only the cognized,
and you see that there is no thing here,
you will therefore see that
indeed there is no thing there.
As you see that there is no thing there,
you will see that
you are therefore located neither in the world of this,
nor in the world of that,
nor in any place
between the two.
This alone is the end of suffering.


Love.

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Eric001
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Re: Freedom to be!

Postby Eric001 » Sun Apr 26, 2020 3:16 pm

Thank you Ilona!

I've now spent the last day playing with the view from the Bahyia Sutra. A relaxation is taking place in the body. And at times it gets real quiet in the mind when taking this view. Here below is what I wrote down during one of these more quiet moments.

Love from the tropics!
<3 :-) /e
Next— bahyia sutra.
play with this view. Seehow everything looks through it.
And write what you notice.
Hearing arises of sounds
Seeing shapes and colours arises
Bodily sensations arise
No separate one can be located as the perceiving,
only perception happening automatically
Attention shifts spontaneously from hearing to seeing to sensing effortlessly,
at times merging into one indivisible perception.
What questions arise?
Who is cognising/perceiving when there is only perceiving?
How simple can it get?
What looks different?
Nothing looks different. It’s all just more vivid, clear and simple.

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Ilona
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Re: Freedom to be!

Postby Ilona » Sun Apr 26, 2020 4:16 pm

Wonderful. Yes, its that simple.

Who is perceiving?
This question is assuming that there must be a person, a subject at the receiving end.
But it’s like asking who is raining? Who is making waves in the ocean? It’s all a happening, perceiving is happening. Witnessing is happening, same way as breathing is happening, in an out.
There is experiencing. There is experienced. Is there a gap between an experiencer and experienced in actuality? Is there awareness -gap- content of awareness? Or is it one event?

Love.

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Eric001
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Re: Freedom to be!

Postby Eric001 » Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:21 pm

Thank you Ilona,

for the clarification. The question "Who is perceiving?" arose more as in reference to awareness itself being the one "perceiving", but then everything seems to be arising in awareness as awareness, so I guess that rules out the "witnesser" as the perceiver. Not sure of any of this makes any sense or if its just more delusion arising here.

Here comes what arises in response to the last questions you sent me.
There is experiencing. There is experienced. Is there a gap between an experiencer and experienced in actuality? Is there awareness -gap- content of awareness? Or is it one event?
There seems to be no gap at all between awareness and it's contents.
And even logically, how could there be?
So, obviously it must be one and the same event.
This even regardless of whatever processing time the brain takes to decode the input from the sense organs. Once there is content registered in awareness and this is experienced there definitely is no gap between that content and awareness of it.

Love from Koh Phangan!
<3 :-) /e

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Ilona
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Re: Freedom to be!

Postby Ilona » Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:08 pm

It’s good to notice that there is no gap and that gap is impossible!
So awareness is not separate from the content of it.
The experience and awareness of it is one and the same, different words, different concepts, but actuality is obvious.

Ok, then what about relationship with life, relating with what is happening, is there an entity that has a relationship or that too is an event arising in and as awareness?

In other words, is there a separate self?

Love

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Eric001
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Re: Freedom to be!

Postby Eric001 » Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:18 pm

Ok, then what about relationship with life, relating with what is happening, is there an entity that has a relationship or that too is an event arising in and as awareness?

In other words, is there a separate self?
Logically no such entity can exist outside of awareness, since awareness as here defined is both the container/perceiver of all content arising (including the character Eric which is a mental and emotional construct), and simultaneously also the content as such, so there can be no separate self.

Although this is clear, it's still not direct experience here fully. The sense of self that is perceived (i.e. sensed and felt) is still creating the illusion that there is some sense of Self that is relating to life. In other words: Although the "me, myself & mine" is lost by dwelling in the present moment without self referenced thoughts, there still remains a sense of "I am" where the "I" is pronounced in the perception arising.

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Re: Freedom to be!

Postby Eric001 » Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:36 pm

Time to get some sleep here now (2:35 am in Thailand). Looking forward to continuing looking tomorrow.

Wishing you a good night!
🌴🤗🌙✨

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Ilona
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Re: Freedom to be!

Postby Ilona » Mon Apr 27, 2020 6:39 am

Ok, logically it’s clear. And you say this
Although this is clear, it's still not direct experience here fully.
There is still an expectation, that something needs to change, that this that is is not it. But this is it. This ordinary awareness, as it is is it. There is nothing else to find. Being aware right now is it. Are you aware? Is that not direct experience? What in your words is direct experience? In my words it’s what is happening now. Can you deny that you are aware of what is happening now?
Does sensation that you call sense of self create anything? Or is it a sensation + label sense of self+ ideas about it?
What does word I need do in order to be? Is there I that does being? Or is this more description of beingness?

Love.

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Eric001
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Re: Freedom to be!

Postby Eric001 » Tue Apr 28, 2020 11:16 am

Hi Ilona,

sorry it took a bit longer to respond, but I had to really honesty feel and look into your last message. Here the response that is arising.
There is still an expectation, that something needs to change, that this that is is not it. But this is it. This ordinary awareness, as it is is it. There is nothing else to find. Being aware right now is it. Are you aware?
It's true that there is general awareness in some form always.
Is that not direct experience?
No, I do not define general awareness as "Direct Experience".
What in your words is direct experience? In my words it’s what is happening now.
For me direct experience is the UNFILTERED experience of present reality as it is (i.e. "what is happening now"), not when awareness is lost in the interpretations of the mind run by the subconscious thought patterns (which which I would term experiencing as "unconscious awareness" or "general awareness"), and hence blind to the Now.
Can you deny that you are aware of what is happening now?
I would say I'm stuck in being aware of a limited unconscious awareness of the present reality. Mostly looping in thought patterns that maintain a strong sense of separate self experience.
Does sensation that you call sense of self create anything?
Yes, here it creates an in-prisoning experience of being the separate self called Eric
Or is it a sensation + label sense of self+ ideas about it?
Yes it is, but it still maintains its spell on the awareness arising here, resulting in strong identification with Eric.
What does word I need do in order to be?
Be present in the thought patterns and be believed as real, which it most of the time is here since that is the state of the subconscious patterns running the perceived reality 95-99% of the time. Only transcended in short moments when the mind is abiding in the stillness of the present moment.
Is there I that does being?
The "I" as Awareness (in the absolute sense of the word) seems to be where everything is arising in (or out of), so yes in that sense the great "I" seems to be "doing" being.
Or is this more description of beingness?


Depends what is referred to by the word "I", as stated in the last answer.

---------------------------

Sorry if these answers come across as delusional, but this is as honest as I can get, and I see no point in trying to pretend that I see clearer or deeper than this.

Love
/e

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Ilona
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Re: Freedom to be!

Postby Ilona » Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:11 pm

You know, I want to take a zen stick and slap you here, lol.

But I will be nice and say kindly- what do you get from insisting on being delusional?

Look at my questions again and answer as simply as possible. Are you aware right now? Yes or no? Not some philosophical theory about unfiltered unconscious awarenesss, plaease. These questions are meant for you to bring you to simplicity and you are giving me answers from thinking about being aware. I simply ask you to notice, are you aware right now? (I’m not asking if you like what is or how this should be)

It does not matter what content is, there is awareness of content, right?

Like if it’s raining it is raining, if it’s sunshine it is sunshine. What you are saying to me now is yeah, it is not sunshine so this rain is in the way to see it. But you are looking at the rain. See the rain. Don’t look for sunshine.

What we are looking at is that everything is happening by itself, no self means life is a happening, not a doing. It does not change what is happening, you see that it is happening and that’s it.

Sorry, but go back to basics. Awareness is doing being? Seriously...
what do you do in order to be?
Can you stop being aware? (Again, thoughts, sensations, feelings, cloudiness is included and valid content)

What is that identifies with Eric? Thoughts? Sensations? Images?
What is Eric? Where is he now? (Right this moment) find it.

With love.


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