Ready to see the truth

[Adam81]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
That the 'me' that is conceptualized is merely a thought. That there is no controller, no agent, watcher or puppet master pulling the strings. Life is spontaneously unfolding.

What are you looking for at LU?
A direct path to the truth, to finally see (that there is no me) in a manner that goes to the root of my understanding. I want to look and see this, rather than attempting to think about it. I'm grasping it conceptually but something is missing. I'd also like a few questions answered, if possible.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
Assistance with seeing that the "I" is an illusion, and some guidance in this regard. I would like constructive (but gentle... lol) criticism on what is preventing my seeing reality for what it is and freedom from the idea of 'me'.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
About a year of mindfulness meditation and seeing that thoughts are indeed spontaneous.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
11

[Bananafish]

Hi Adam. :) My name is Bananafish, one of the guides
in this forum. I'd be more than glad to be your help.


First of all, could you tell what you want from
seeing that the "I" is an illusion? Is seeing it your primary goal,
i.e., an end itself? Or do you expect something to happen
as a result of that seeing?


Looking forward to your reply!

Bananafish

[Adam81]

could you tell what you want from
seeing that the "I" is an illusion? Is seeing it your primary goal,
i.e., an end itself? Or do you expect something to happen
as a result of that seeing?

Hey Bananafish,
More than anything, the separate self concept has caused me immense suffering throughout my life. I feel as if I am 'almost there' but can't get past a couple of blockades, what my mind tells me is 'common sense'--of course there's a me, controlling my life, making decisions etc. I'd like to end my suffering. I'd like to live life in the fullest manner, via the truth, and not get so carried away by thoughts. Thank you very much for volunteering to help me see through the illusion--I ask for your patience, as I have always been very analytical, and if a question remains, I feel as if I won't truly see through this.

Adam

[Bananafish]

Hi Adam. :)

Thank you for the message.

You wrote that you are carried away by thoughts; could we clarify this?
Observe any thought that comes, and please find the one who is
"carried away."

Also, please clarify what being carried away by thought really means.

Peace,

Bananafish

[Adam81]

You wrote that you are carried away by thoughts; could we clarify this?
Observe any thought that comes, and please find the one who is
"carried away."
Also, please clarify what being carried away by thought really means.

No one is truly carried away. Being carried away is another thought and perhaps the 'anxious' sensations that seem to accompany these thoughts--pressure/tingling which seem to emanate from my head and neck area.

The propensity to identify with and AS thought seems to be strong. I know these things but somehow forget them? ...which is more thought identification, creating another 'me'. LOL

[Bananafish]

Hi Adam. :)


Is that an intellectual understanding? It is important to know
where you are stuck on your way, and directly observe what
is making you stuck. It is easy to say that there is no separate self,
but that isn't equivalent to experientially know that there isn't one.


Could the sticking point be the 'anxious' sensations?
If that's the case, could we have a look at it together?


Warm regards,

Bananafish

[Adam81]

Is that an intellectual understanding? It is important to know
where you are stuck on your way, and directly observe what
is making you stuck. It is easy to say that there is no separate self,
but that isn't equivalent to experientially know that there isn't one.

Could the sticking point be the 'anxious' sensations?
If that's the case, could we have a look at it together?

Hey Bananafish... I experienced the separation of my thoughts and 'me' about a year ago (by accident) and it was nearly a mystical experience. I was blown away with this relization that I wasn't my thoughts, and was walking on the clouds for some months afterward. Since then I've had this unquenchable thirst to grasp this on a deeper level, I can't describe it. I know the experience of being without thought for extended periods and what I'd call residing in this clear awareness, although only during meditation. I tell you this not because I think my story is special or something, but to give you some context--and maybe give you some insight as to where I'm at with all of this. I'd say it's more of an intellectual understanding, with a fleeting glimpse of truth, although I think (?) I'm still associating this awareness as a separate self?

The anxious sensations draw me right into identification--yes, you are right. But also, I cannot for the life of me grasp, or experience rather, being 'one with everything' as I so often hear. Yes I would be very happy to explore this further with you--eliminating this sense of the separate self on an experiential level.

Adam

[Bananafish]

Hi Adam. :) I'd like to clarify that we are not
dealing with any kind of remembered experience here.


Any experience, be it eating an apple or some kind of mystical experience,
is a memory; trying to chase for memory is to neglect what is here and now, but
here, we are trying to deal only with what is here and now.


This doesn't mean that I'm denying your experience, but
nevertheless, experience is experience; nothing more.


Am I making sense?

I cannot for the life of me grasp, or experience rather,
being 'one with everything' as I so often hear.

Can you see this as one of the beliefs of yours?
What makes you believe that you can grasp a certain experience
told by others?

eliminating this sense of the separate self on an experiential level.

This might be something about wording, but we can't "eliminate"
a feeling. On the contrary, you can look at it and see it as it is ...
see what it really is. From that, understanding comes.

As long as you try to eliminate a feeling, it will come back as something
yet to be understood.


Again, is my explanation clear?


Warm regards,

Bananafish

[Adam81]

Any experience, be it eating an apple or some kind of mystical experience,
is a memory; trying to chase for memory is to neglect what is here and now, but
here, we are trying to deal only with what is here and now.

Am I making sense?

Fair enough, makes perfect sense.

Can you see this as one of the beliefs of yours?
What makes you believe that you can grasp a certain experience
told by others?

Yep--Only dealing in DE, I get what you're saying.

As long as you try to eliminate a feeling, it will come back as something
yet to be understood. Again, is my explanation clear?

Crystal clear!

[Bananafish]

Hi Adam. :) Thanks! And careful ... "DE" can be
a belief too. :)


Let's look at what you call awareness.


By observing, or being awareness, could you freely describe it?
Also, please give one or two different names to it; I'd prefer
your original one; not something like consciousness, oneness, or
awake something ... could you try that?

Warmly,

Bananafish

[Adam81]

By observing, or being awareness, could you freely describe it?
Also, please give one or two different names to it; I'd prefer
your original one; not something like consciousness, oneness, or
awake something ... could you try that?

Awareness feels like the most fundamental part of what I am.... It is very difficult to describe or even think about in an objective way---like a knowledge in a way, of what is going on, what the body is perceiving with the senses. underneath all of these senses feels like an 'openness' or a knowing.

[Bananafish]

Ok, thanks, Adam. :)

Do you feel that "openness" is separate from any perception, including
bodily sensations?

Warmly,

Bananafish

[Adam81]

Do you feel that "openness" is separate from any perception, including
bodily sensations?

I think this is where I'm having an issue. YES, I see it now. There is a distinct sense of awareness being separate from thoughts, & perceptions

[Bananafish]

Hi. :)

Do you see any boundary between awareness, thoughts, & perceptions?

[Adam81]

Do you see any boundary between awareness, thoughts, & perceptions?

I don't see a boundary, no. But somehow there is a sense (maybe a thought, maybe perception--it's so difficult to even pinpoint) that I am watching this all happen. I'm watching 'my' perceptions, thoughts as this knowing. There are glimpses of being a part of one continuous flow, if that makes any sense--but it is 'grabbed' by this sense that puts a 'me' back in the driver seat, as the observer.

From there, thinking insists on the concept that in order for there to be seeing, there must be an entity. This can be dispelled easily enough as thought, thinking in a conditioned manner, and this sort of settles everything back into a state of what feels like ease or rest. From there it all seems to cycle. I hope this makes sense.