unblur my vision

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RandomGuy7
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Re: unblur my vision

Postby RandomGuy7 » Sat Mar 28, 2020 8:15 am

I am not sure what it would entail to be crystal clear that there is no separate self.

I still live my life as a person.
Go to work, solve problems, make decisions and most importantly try to prove myself in a world of persons.
To function in the world, I wear the guise of an individual self which grows on me so strong that it becomes unnoticed.
In the heat of the struggle to survive in everyday life, It eludes me that I am not a separate self at all.

There was a short period not so long ago when it seemed that all of this dissolved completely.
All that was present was a flow of sensations without any interpretation.
Not only was there no separate self, but there was no separate anything else either, except raw sensory input.
There was sound, color, smell, touch, but the input was not assembled to a seemingly solid reality.
There was no street, house, car, people, wind, cobblestone or me.
Much to my surprise I could still speak and act, but it did not feel like coming from a center or being
volitional, it happend on it's own accord. I did not do it, it was simply there.
This lasted for a week or so, then gradually weakened and is now but a memory.

From theory I also know that this is not about states.
States come and go in awareness, clinging to any of them just a different form of identification.
Still, so far this was my only first hand experience of no self, even if a short lived one.

Random

Bananafish
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Re: unblur my vision

Postby Bananafish » Sat Mar 28, 2020 8:54 am

Ok, let me elaborate.


Think of a case in which you look for a lost key; you think it's in your
house, and keep looking for everywhere in your house.

Then you suddenly notice that the key wasn't in the house from the beginning;
as your wife (or someone else you live with) took it with her by mistake.


Now, if you were asked whether a separate entity we usually call "I" or "self"
is somewhere in the universe, would you clearly say that you are sure
there is none of that kind in our actual experience?

Just like in the analogy above where you noticed that the key wasn't anywhere?


If yes, you are "crystal clear."


And sometimes forgetting about where the key or what it is, is is something to be looked
further, after really recognizing that there is no separate "me."


Am I making sense? :)


Best wishes,

Bananafish
I'm available for Skype or Zoom face to face conversation. Drop me a line and we could arrange
the date.
Email: swinganova@hotmail.co.jp
Website: https://en.modernkoanproject.com

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RandomGuy7
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Re: unblur my vision

Postby RandomGuy7 » Sat Mar 28, 2020 10:51 am

Hello Bananafish,

Yes, what you say makes absolute sense.

Gauged by this, if I am honest I have to say I am not cristal clear.
Using your analogy, I heard from someone that there is no key inside the house.
I understand his reasoning, I agree with it, I could even explain it to someone else why the key cannot be inside.
While I pretend there is no key to look for, I still keep looking secretly because I cannot fully accept the fact.

"No self" is not currently my day to day experience that I sometimes just forget about.

How can deeply held beliefs be erased for good?
They are so dear and old familiar that logical reasoning just cannot wipe them out.
Recently I tried to face up to this on several occasions,
but the gravitational force of "my life" pulled me back again each time with its colorful promises.
Is there any way to end this struggle?

Many thanks for staying tuned.

Random

Bananafish
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Location: Japan
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Re: unblur my vision

Postby Bananafish » Sat Mar 28, 2020 12:26 pm

Hi again. :)

I still keep looking secretly because I cannot fully accept the fact.


Ok, taking into consideration that this is also an analogy,
I'd still say that it's not about acceptance; it isn't there, whether you accept it or not.
And in your analogy, the person hasn't even looked for the key! That is the crucial point.
Please actually look for a separate self, and check if it really exists.

"No self" is not currently my day to day experience that I sometimes just forget about.


I see a certain belief here; "no-self" is not an experience. It is a fact, and it doesn't
matter if you forget it or not. It's not that you forget it. It forgets. Do you see the difference?

How can deeply held beliefs be erased for good?


Thank goodness, they don't have to be erased for good, and they can't be.
You could, however, see it as they are and not believe in beliefs about beliefs.
Am I making sense?


Is there any way to end this struggle?

You know what? The best way to end it to end it. Now. Let's do.

Please look for the one that is struggling. Where is it?
How does that one who is struggling felt to be?


Warmly,

Bananafish
I'm available for Skype or Zoom face to face conversation. Drop me a line and we could arrange
the date.
Email: swinganova@hotmail.co.jp
Website: https://en.modernkoanproject.com

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RandomGuy7
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:49 pm

Re: unblur my vision

Postby RandomGuy7 » Sun Mar 29, 2020 9:30 am

Hello Bananfish,

Yes, you are so right....
Let's look for the one.

When the struggle is felt, there are thoughts that contradict each other.

Have a life, become someone, improve yourself.
vs
Investigate what is really going on, find out finally what this is all about.

The one who struggles is the person I believe myself to be.
It wants to enjoy life and become a better version of itself.
The last thing it wishes for is it's own death.

Only problem, this person even though in charge, is not real.
It is imaginary, it is nowhere to be found, except in thought,
In the end, this is an imagined quandary of an imagined entity.
None of it is real.

But there is still something to see this, otherwise it could not be known.
And that something must be real.

Random
Random

Bananafish
Posts: 3636
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Location: Japan
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Re: unblur my vision

Postby Bananafish » Sun Mar 29, 2020 9:54 am

Hi Random. :)

there is still something to see this, otherwise it could not be known.
And that something must be real.

Could we say "it could be known, because there isn't anything
to see this?#


Please investigate the above.


If there is something to stand in the middle of the perception of reality,
wouldn't that reality be blurred by that "something" that stands?

In this case, that would be your belief in that something's existence.


Where is that "something"? Please search in the same manner you
searched for the separate self.


Peace,

Bananafish
I'm available for Skype or Zoom face to face conversation. Drop me a line and we could arrange
the date.
Email: swinganova@hotmail.co.jp
Website: https://en.modernkoanproject.com

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RandomGuy7
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:49 pm

Re: unblur my vision

Postby RandomGuy7 » Sun Mar 29, 2020 5:30 pm

Hello Bananafish,

So does that mean there is no seer at all?
The ultimate subject cannot be objectified, that is true, provided there is one at all.
It is the subject of everything, and knowing it would turn it into an object, at which point it would cease to be the subject.
So chasing it is futile. I will never find it as an object.

Or does this mean that any kind of division is foolish?
In which case there is only onness.

What I do know is:

I am.
I am aware that I am.
I am aware that I am aware.

This is what I can assert with certainty.
All else is speculation.
May be there is no more to it...
May be this is all there is.

Random

Bananafish
Posts: 3636
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:29 pm
Location: Japan
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Re: unblur my vision

Postby Bananafish » Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:46 am

Hi Random. :)

So chasing it is futile. I will never find it as an object.


Well, did you actually chase? Just concluding that according to your
belief won't take you anywhere.


What I do know is:

I am.
I am aware that I am.
I am aware that I am aware.

This is what I can assert with certainty.


Please tell more about this. Is this an intellectual knowing?
Or it isn't?


Where is the "I" that is concrete and separate from others?
What is it?


Warm regards,

Bananafish
I'm available for Skype or Zoom face to face conversation. Drop me a line and we could arrange
the date.
Email: swinganova@hotmail.co.jp
Website: https://en.modernkoanproject.com

Bananafish
Posts: 3636
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:29 pm
Location: Japan
Contact:

Re: unblur my vision

Postby Bananafish » Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:47 am

P.S.

As I keep telling you, I ask you to actually look for that separate one.
Have you tried that?
I'm available for Skype or Zoom face to face conversation. Drop me a line and we could arrange
the date.
Email: swinganova@hotmail.co.jp
Website: https://en.modernkoanproject.com

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RandomGuy7
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:49 pm

Re: unblur my vision

Postby RandomGuy7 » Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:46 pm

Hey Bananafish,

Yes, this is intellectual.
All of it.

With that out of the way:
How do I start to actually look?
What is the right way of doing it?

Thanks

Random

Bananafish
Posts: 3636
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:29 pm
Location: Japan
Contact:

Re: unblur my vision

Postby Bananafish » Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:04 pm

Ok, you seem to believe that there is a certain way to
look. Have you had any experience of looking for a lost key (or
anything else)? That's how you look for a separate self.


There isn't a technique or certain method, or a "right" way for this,
which you might be expecting me to show.
It's something that everyone can do, as long as one can read, write
and talk; as easy as that. Just look, my friend!


And you could do it right now ... actually if you don't do it
now, you will never see it.


So now, where is a separate self?
Look for it without any "right" method, please.


Best wishes,

Bananafish
I'm available for Skype or Zoom face to face conversation. Drop me a line and we could arrange
the date.
Email: swinganova@hotmail.co.jp
Website: https://en.modernkoanproject.com


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