Thread for JackSprat

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Ilona
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Re: Thread for JackSprat

Postby Ilona » Fri Apr 10, 2020 9:40 am

Thank you for exploring this.
There is sense of being. Knowing that you are. It is always present. Can you see that? Can you deny that you are?
Yes, using language all we can talk about is thoughts about thoughts about thoughts.
But there is something here that is not a thought.
That is the actuality of being. It’s underneath all descriptions and concepts.
This knowing that i am is undeniably here, and it does not matter if you call it I am, or presence, or being, or life, or aliveness, or god, or stillness or consciousness.. etc.

Words can only point to that, but that is not defined by words.

So let’s continue exploring.
What is here underneath all names?
Do you need to someone or something in order to be?
Do you need to understand anything in order to be?

Is beingness something that comes and goes or is it constant?

This video may help to make sense, https://youtu.be/LXrfQqvwIcU

Love.

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JackSprat
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Re: Thread for JackSprat

Postby JackSprat » Fri Apr 10, 2020 3:01 pm

There is sense of being. Knowing that you are. It is always present. Can you see that? Can you deny that you are?
That is always present when I'm awake. I cannot deny that I am as long as I'm conscious. I don't have any experience in deep sleep. Although, maybe that's not true. I'm aware of dreams sometimes, so I changed my mind. I can't deny that I'm always present in some fashion. There is a sense of... sort of knowing without knowledge. More simply observing. I've felt that. That's kind of the frustrating part. I feel as though I've accessed it, or had just tastes. My intellectual/conceptual understanding of it is totally there. I get it. I just don't "see" it. Again - moments, sure - but no "breakthrough," in the truest sense.
What is here underneath all names?
The sense of being. The observance of everything happening.
Do you need to someone or something in order to be?
This is hard. No, someone, no. It's very clear to me that my name, history, and all that is absolutely fabrication. It's all applied onto this skin and bones. I can see the obviousness of the illusion of identifying with name, history, race, nationality, even identifying with the vision, and how identifying oneself as thoughts is also not functional. As for something... well, I don't know. Does something need to be there in order to be... my instinct tells me no, but I don' thave any "seeing" or "looking" to base it upon. I just have a deep sense of "no."
Do you need to understand anything in order to be?
That's a definite no. I think about some of the dreams I've had, in which I understand absolutely nothing. Yet, I'm still there. So, no.
Is beingness something that comes and goes or is it constant?
Beingness seems to be something that is constant. There is only a very small piece that I can't account for in deep sleep. It feels as though I can extrapolate that "I am" even in the deepest of sleep.
This video may help to make sense
I have watched that video before. I understand that concept easily. The analogy only holds up to a certain spot, but if you will indluge me.

If a wave becomes aware that it is, ultimately, the ocean. How does it? At some point, it has to look at itself from a certain perspective in order to see the greater ocean surrounding it entirely. How do I get around to looking back at myself (the wave) in order to see the ocean? Or, maybe said another way I've heard it, how does the wave go inside itself to see beyond the boundary of it's wave, into the ocean itself?

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Re: Thread for JackSprat

Postby Ilona » Fri Apr 10, 2020 4:33 pm

Well, the sense of being aware is it.
And you are looking for a breakthrough. You are hoping for something to happen. Nothing needs to happen. Nothing is going to happen. What is incomplete right here right now?

I just don’t see it. What are you looking at? And what are you looking for?

Love.

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Re: Thread for JackSprat

Postby JackSprat » Fri Apr 10, 2020 6:08 pm

I just don’t see it. What are you looking at? And what are you looking for?
I'm looking for the clarity of seeing that shows a total lack of agent. The experience of really not having to do anything at all - that the universe does everything. I hear and see people talk about that being their normal life - but it's not mine. Maybe they are terrible at describing it, but it's not my basic experience.

No sense of "doer." I still feel a sense of doer in most things that I do.

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Re: Thread for JackSprat

Postby JackSprat » Fri Apr 10, 2020 6:20 pm

I feel maybe I should also clarify...

When someone talks about themselves and an experience that maybe generated an emotion of being hurt emotionally... as an example.

I see lots of people on the "side of seeing" say "well there's not even anyone there! You don't exist!"

That's not my perspective at all. They are a being that experiences things like emotions. It's part of being a human. They don't have to get dragged down by them, of course. However, my default is not "you aren't real!" I see that a lot.

I'm not there. I can't see that directly, though I sort of understand the perspective. There are many, sort of, "awake" practitioners who say in essence that even the physical person isn't real, but all is mind/god/suchness, whatever. Alright - maybe. I don't see that. There has been no sense of falling due to a realization in the lack of Santa Claus. There has been no deepening of understanding.

I realized how absurd it was for me to frame everything that occurs, naturally, in reference to "myself" when everyone had their own frame of reference and it has absolutely nothing to do with me. I laughed. I had seen a therapist before - I went to see him, sat down, and laughed my way through all the "problems" we had worked on prior to that. I gave him a hug, and I never went back. It was all so absurdly clear and obviously the truth of it. However - deepening and falling, and all those descriptions don't make any sense to me.

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Re: Thread for JackSprat

Postby Ilona » Fri Apr 10, 2020 7:33 pm

Thank you for clarification. I see a lot of expectations that are creating a distorted view.
'm looking for the clarity of seeing that shows a total lack of agent. The experience of really not having to do anything at all - that the universe does everything.
It’s not that there was an agent and now it’s no longer there. There never was an agent, so how can you see the lack of it?
To clarify, look, what is not happening automatically? What is not life happening?
What do you mean by not having to do anything? What do you do now? I don’t understand what you ran by this. How do you run the universe now?

You don’t exist is a pointer. You don’t exist as you think you do. But you exist. Right? Can you deny your existence? Can you stop existing for a minute? Or do you expect to stop existing? You don’t exist as you think you do does not mean you are not present. It means that the image in the head, the image about the character is not you.

My advise is to stop listening to what people say and look in your own experience what is true to you. Nothing you expect this to be is that. And reading other people’s descriptions only add to expectations to how this should look like. Then you think that emotions are wrong, or that you should not feel them.

So let’s stop looking how this should fit an image of expectations, and start looking at what is real. What is here. What is undeniable. Not how this should be or how you should feel like, but what is actuality, what is plain obvious.

There is sense of being, there is experience happening. Are you managing what is happening, are you doing the happening? Are you in control of weather? And are you in control of the rest of life?

If so, then it’s obvious. What are you in control of right this very moment?


Put all ideas aside and look. What is obvious.

Love.

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Re: Thread for JackSprat

Postby Ilona » Fri Apr 10, 2020 7:36 pm

Thank you for clarification. I see a lot of expectations that are creating a distorted view.
'm looking for the clarity of seeing that shows a total lack of agent. The experience of really not having to do anything at all - that the universe does everything.
It’s not that there was an agent and now it’s no longer there. There never was an agent, so how can you see the lack of it?
To clarify, look, what is not happening automatically? What is not life happening?
What do you mean by not having to do anything? What do you do now? I don’t understand what you mean by this. How do you run the universe now?

You don’t exist is a pointer. Full sentence is — You don’t exist as you think you do. But you exist. Right? Can you deny your existence? Can you stop existing for a minute? Or do you expect to stop existing? You don’t exist as you think you do does not mean you are not present. It means that the image in the head, the image about the character is not you.

My advise is to stop listening to what people say and look in your own experience what is true to you. Nothing you expect this to be is that. And reading other people’s descriptions only add to expectations to how this should look like. Then you think that emotions are wrong, or that you should not feel them.

So let’s stop looking how this should fit expectations, and start looking at what is real. What is here. What is undeniable. Not how this should be or how you should feel like, but what is in actuality, what is plain obvious.

There is sense of being, there is experience happening. Are you managing what is happening, are you doing the happening? Are you in control of weather? And are you in control of the rest of life?

If so, then it’s obvious. What are you in control of right this very moment?


Put all ideas aside and look. What is obvious.

Love.

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JackSprat
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Re: Thread for JackSprat

Postby JackSprat » Fri Apr 10, 2020 7:47 pm

What are you in control of right this very moment?
Nada, amiga. Replying or not, seemingly. Scratching my face or not, seemingly. Little else, if anything else.
There is sense of being, there is experience happening. Are you managing what is happening, are you doing the happening? Are you in control of weather? And are you in control of the rest of life?
I'm not managing what is happening, no. If I were it would all be cupcakes and rainbows for all the "non-people" I know. It isn't however, all cupcakes and rainbows. It isn't bad, though. It just is. I'm not in control of the weather, I'm not in control of my job, I'm not in control of my employees (lord, I wish I were moreso), I'm barely in control of my daughter ;), I'm not in control of my vehicle, or my house, or the sounds generated around me, or... the things I see or don't. I'm not in control of when I die.

No, I'm not in control.
Then you think that emotions are wrong, or that you should not feel them.
I didn't mean to give this impression. i don't actually think that emotions are wrong or I shouldn't feel them. I was actually talking about discursive thought. Like... feeling a drive to flirt with an attractive woman instead of just moving on.

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Re: Thread for JackSprat

Postby Ilona » Fri Apr 10, 2020 7:59 pm

Aha. But even the drive to flirt is just happening too.
Another place to look is this: what should not be happening? What is not allowed?

It’s like this. There is life happening as weather, people, situations, emotions thoughts etc. As Everything. And there is a relationship with the happening : I like I don’t like, this is not enough, this is too intense, this should have never happened and I want that to happen. See? And that relationship is assumed to be here because of an entity, that expresses its judgements. But even that is a program happening. Everything is included.

It may sound like loosing control, but can you loose control which was never here?

:)

Love.


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