Thread for JackSprat

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JackSprat
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Re: Thread for JackSprat

Postby JackSprat » Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:22 am

Is there any doubt?
Yes, there is some. :'( It's so aggravating. I woke up this morning certain self was gone and I had seen through the illusion of it into simply being in the world. I'm 100% sure it is mind created, but it doesn't "feel" that way this morning. *Adding this after I wrote everything else* --> It isn't right to say feel. It feels the same; yet the nagging doubt at your question.
Can you look back to before we started this conversation and tell me what else has changed?
What hasn’t changed? What looks different?
Well, before we started this conversation, I was quite sure that you were correct. I had read some articles, your book, and a few dialogues on this site; I just hadn't felt it.

Yesterday, the entire day was freedom and perspective was different. It felt totally done. This literally looked different - even the internal landscape. This morning it's a bit harder and I feel some sort of push/pull inside. Looking makes me wonder if there is still some fear.

I don't know of what, though. I know that "I" is just a thought. "Me'" is just an idea pointing to a gathering of stuff that breathes, and sleeps, and talks, and types. Yesterday when I felt totally free, I was a better dad and husband than the day before in a sense; I just did what came naturally without getting in its way. I had conversations with neighbors that are normally awkward and didn't feel the slightest bit odd or uncomfortable, or overlay anything to do with a "me" being perceived by them (or me) into it.

It's too early to have had any interactions with anyone else where I live (Eastern Standard), but I feel some doubt, so the cascade of sorts above. :)

sigh.

Felt it? Yes. Seen it? aaah. I get in my own way to some extent. "I" am not a thing. "I" isn't a thing any more than a french fry is a thing, in truth. It points to something people commonly understand, but it isn't itself the very thing.

My name, he, I, me, mine, his and all of that are the same; relative terms pointing to the perspective I have on this life living, or that of another being experiencing/referencing this being in this life. They aren't the life. The life is the life; even that is a descriptor for what's occurring.

Why should it be personal? The sensation when one settles some and observes typing just happening "without thinking" or sees the words appear on the page simultaneous to the no-thinking/typing/seeing/understanding it is so much clearer how impersonal the very essence is - impersonal; no I. No me.

Yet some doubt arises, which makes me wonder if I have truly SEEN or just have a fabulous conceptual understanding that sometimes masquerades as seeing. Yuck!

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Ilona
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Re: Thread for JackSprat

Postby Ilona » Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:04 am

Thank you for writing, I hear you.
There is no such a thing- fully SEEN in the past tense. What you are experiencing right now, is present, not past. Seeing this once is not an exit to happy ever after with no fear and no aggravation. It’s simply an opening and the seeing is here anytime time you look.
The biggest common expectation is that once it’s fully seen, the self no longer comes back. It’s not like that. At all.

Once it’s seen it can be seen again and again and again in the now. In all different situations and all different angles. It’s not hidden, it’s plain obvious.

And what would that be that comes back? Is fear done by a self? Is annoyance a proof of a separate self? Are thoughts about a self = an entity?

When kid realises that Santa is fictional character, can real Santa come back? Was there ever a real Santa? Was real Santa replaced by no-Santa? Does kid need to remind himself that Santa is not real when he sees a picture of a man in red clothes?

A nice experience is great, but seeing is not about having an experience that lasts! It’s knowing, that no matter what experience is here is it not a result of a separate self managing that experience. It’s knowing that all is happening and none of that is done by a doer. None of the happening is done by a separate from the flow of life self.

In experience right here right now, look and see, is there a separate self? What is here? What is real?
What is that does not change?

Love.

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JackSprat
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Re: Thread for JackSprat

Postby JackSprat » Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:43 am

It’s simply an opening and the seeing is here anytime time you look.
The biggest common expectation is that once it’s fully seen, the self no longer comes back. It’s not like that. At all.
Oh. Is this one of the things covered in the "aftercare?" ha! Do openings become more frequent and last longer?
Once it’s seen it can be seen again and again and again in the now. In all different situations and all different angles. It’s not hidden, it’s plain obvious.
Yes, that feels true. I can remind "myself." Your saying it here makes me kind of laugh - it isn't hidden. Yet - it's not always sitting on your nose, either!
And what would that be that comes back? Is fear done by a self? Is annoyance a proof of a separate self? Are thoughts about a self = an entity?
No, they are just annoying. Annoyance is proof of annoyance. It comes up. I'm used to getting annoyed by certain things - have been since I can remember. It's just a story that "I'm" annoyed by those things, though. In truth, it's just a pattern of behavior.
When kid realises that Santa is fictional character, can real Santa come back? Was there ever a real Santa? Was real Santa replaced by no-Santa? Does kid need to remind himself that Santa is not real when he sees a picture of a man in red clothes?
No, that's unnecessary. As an adult, I know Santa is fiction. The difference is that when I pretend and discuss Santa with my daughter, it's always very clear that I'm faking for her sake. When we discuss self... that's in the back there somewhere, but the normal experience still throws in a "self" feeling regularly. Do you know what I mean by that difference?
A nice experience is great, but seeing is not about having an experience that lasts! It’s knowing, that no matter what experience is here is it not a result of a separate self managing that experience. It’s knowing that all is happening and none of that is done by a doer. None of the happening is done by a separate from the flow of life self.
All is happening. I'm not managing it - trying to just makes for a hell of a lot of discomfort. Dukkha, I believe some call it.
In experience right here right now, look and see, is there a separate self? What is here? What is real?
What is that does not change?
No. Absolutely not. In experience right here and now, there is seeing, typing, breathing, physical sensation, mental patterns. That's what is here now. I don't even know if I'm actually conversing with another being or myself because I have no frame of reference. There's only this. Doing, feeling, seeing.

I don't have to attach any importance to the thoughts; it's just habit. A very, very strong habit. Does that part get easier?

The part that doesn't change... the experiencing of it all happening.


Love back!

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Re: Thread for JackSprat

Postby Ilona » Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:37 am

Nice, there is experiencing happening, there is being and knowing of experience happening.
Here is a video for you https://youtu.be/vVfvRetanr0

Tell me what comes up for you when you ask that question?

As for hobbits, the thought that a habit is strong is another thought. They fall off, when no longer needed. Like leaves if a tree in the autumn. One day a habit is here, another day is not.

Love.

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JackSprat
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Re: Thread for JackSprat

Postby JackSprat » Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:28 pm

Tell me what comes up for you when you ask that question?
When I ask the question if there is a self present in experience, I get no reply just like you mentioned in the clip. I get a very, very quiet response. Yet, it isn't a total lack of response. It's more like the opening of a deep well. I experience the vastness of a very deep, very silent, well. Then, I feel the movement/beating/vibrating of the body.
One day a habit is here, another day is not.
:-D

So do the openings become more frequent and/or last longer as habits and such fall off?

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Re: Thread for JackSprat

Postby Ilona » Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:39 pm

Lovely.
The opening is a beginning of experiment that stillness that deep deep well of the IS.
It’s available any time when attention goes there. So keep resting in that isness, underneath all thoughts
It’s found in here now. Not in the past or future but here, in the presence.
In that stillness there are no questions and no answers. There is only being. That is. That’s the home.

Sending love.

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JackSprat
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Re: Thread for JackSprat

Postby JackSprat » Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:52 pm

Thank you so much, Ilona. Corresponding with you directly has been supremely helpful and much better than reading others' interactions with you in the book/online.

Be well!

I'm so happy!

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Re: Thread for JackSprat

Postby Ilona » Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:57 pm

Let this settle and write to me in a couple of days with update on how things look.

Much love.

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JackSprat
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Re: Thread for JackSprat

Postby JackSprat » Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:02 pm

Oh!

I'm sure you want the bow and wrapping on the gift, at the end, so that other people can benefit from reading.

No. There is no separate entity in existence from existence, which would be referred to as "I" or "me" outside the colloquial communication that is necessary as social creatures. It would be extremely difficult to function as social humans without that ability to point to this form as opposed to that form, when speaking about experience as we live it.

"I" is created by the mind as a means of identifying the various experiences of life. One can view it happening in real time if you just watch the mind as you look around - not just seeing, but hearing, smelling, etc. The mind throws up random labels for everything. If it doesn't know what it is - it makes up a label! That's how you might confuse a snake with a rope, for example. Mistaken identity! Well, just so, we throw a label at the being which we are functioning as and call it "me." We're named and believe that name is somehow written deeper than the very bones of our bodies, and that the story about that name/I is who we are as true beings. Well, it's not. It's a mistaken identity in the truest form.

I forget what the last question is - but no, there never was a separate me in experience. There are no separate selves in live, there is only life in forms doing its thing.

Something you said in the video about it being kind of like believing there is a separate wind to cause the movement of each individual plant/tree really resonated with me. I like that idea. Thank you.

So, yea... no separation. Just a being being. Life lifing. Living living. Experience experiencing.

**Oh! I just saw that you posted while I was writing. I will still follow up in a few days!**

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Re: Thread for JackSprat

Postby Ilona » Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:38 am

Dear friend, how is it going?
Nicely expressed about mistaken identity!
Would you say, you are ready for the final questions? If not, is there anything else you want to look at?

Love.

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Re: Thread for JackSprat

Postby JackSprat » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:52 am

Hi!

I don't think there's anything else to look at. Old habits that had been dormant for quite a long time, as well as reactions, have been cropping up. Like a violent attempt to insert more ego and substantiate a self in here.

It's unpleasant, but I'm just trying to keep watching it.

I am able to dig into the openness of vision and have that clear sense of simple presence without "anyone" here when I focus on it.

I think I'm ready...? :)

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Re: Thread for JackSprat

Postby Ilona » Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:15 pm

Let’s not rush. “I think I’m ready?” Is not the answer I am looking for from you. :)

Right, let’s see what is the deal with ego. What does the ego do? What is that word ego point to? What does this ego want?

Write what comes up.
Love.

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JackSprat
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Re: Thread for JackSprat

Postby JackSprat » Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:25 pm

It seems that the ego is an idea, a thought, that supports the storyline built since childhood. It is also the idea that I have within me a sort of unchanging thing that is me. It is entirely reflexive and generally reactionary to a stimulus. The ego is an idea that wants you to believe in the unchanging self, and give the impression that you are special and need to be protected from that wicked... comment someone made! Or perhaps protect you from the idea that a friend views you in a certain way, and it isn't favorable. Maybe it's protecting you from that driver on the road who just doesn't know you exist and cuts you off! The ego chimes in with "me?! Who dare you cut ME off?" As examples.

The ego is self. The same, I think.

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Re: Thread for JackSprat

Postby Ilona » Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:35 pm

I invite you to spend time with these questions and investigate deeper. Give me something from your experience.
An idea that wants you to believe?
Nope. Ideas don’t want you to believe.
Look in actuality.
Is reaction to stimulus ego?
Does reaction need an ego?

These questions in my previous posts are for you to work with so you know the answer, not just throw what you heard from someone.

Love.

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JackSprat
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Re: Thread for JackSprat

Postby JackSprat » Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:57 pm

Okay. I'll spend some time with it.

I'm not regurgitating something I heard; at least I don't believe so.

Ideas are thoughts. Thoughts coming up posing as ego/self - I don't see the controversy. Maybe that's the problem...?


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