Thread for JackSprat

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Ilona
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Thread for JackSprat

Postby Ilona » Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:15 am

Hi jacksprat,
We can chat here.
Can we start from this question- what are you looking for.
Write all down and we will take it from there.

Love.

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JackSprat
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Re: Thread for JackSprat

Postby JackSprat » Wed Mar 18, 2020 12:05 pm

I'm looking for the inner peace! I'm looking to be a total safe-haven for people in my life - free of judgement, where they are free to simply be themselves and feel okay with it. Even those with "ordinary minds." I want to simply "do" and not "think." Disclaimer: I know that thoughts will always happen. I mean analyze, I suppose, unless requried.

I have been meditating for over a year and a half. No vipassana, just following the breath. I've found a lot of inner peace, but not the final piece of the puzzle (the final piece/peace! ha!).

I know that meditating takes forever to help, but I think since I was doing it without direct instruction, it actually went pretty well. I had a very obvious "insight" into the fact that not only am I not the center of the universe, I don't have to carry any of the weight of what happens in it. That eased a lot of annoyance with/at the world. It is certainly much better.

More recently, I have investigated "who am I" as Ramana Maharshi taught, and it seems to be loosening, but I just want it to untie! I've read your book, looked throughout this site, and even had a try at it (the gate) some time ago. The timing must not have been right - I just left it, basically.

So - I read an article by Thich Nat Hanh about emptiness. It was a really beautiful piece. He looked at the sevenfold reasoning in his own way and pointed to - example - everything exists in a flower except flower. It was revelatory in its own way and is so clear to be true.

I directed this idea at this living organism (still perceived as mine) and some loosening has happened. I really just want to make sure it really lets rip! I'm also jealous of the fact that you and Elena have absolutely zero worry lines on your foreheads! ;-P

I truly believe I am so close. I just need some kind of nudge and direction for it to become the default mode - completely without illusion of ME, but instead a storyline I witness and take some part in.

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Re: Thread for JackSprat

Postby Ilona » Wed Mar 18, 2020 1:46 pm

Thank you for replay. Peace, yes. What is in the way of peace now?

Seeing no self does not mean peace or no worrying, or any other state. Peace is here when fighting what is no longer happens. That’s a different thing. That is clearing the patterns, making peace, saying yes to what is.

Seeing no self means Seeing that everything is happening by itself, naturally, as one movement, no separate entity in charge of managing what is.

How does that land? What comes up when you hear this?

Love.

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Re: Thread for JackSprat

Postby JackSprat » Wed Mar 18, 2020 4:55 pm

It lands fine!

The way you say it resonates with what I'm looking for. I feel that really "grokking" beyond concept the lack of true self, will allow a relaxation into anything, because everything becomes obviously impersonal; I supposed that may have the side benefit of no worrying, because if everything happens as it happens - then I can't control it anyway.

What to worry about? Dying? That would be unfortunate, certainly. Mostly, this life living is pretty decent.

I see a lot of people kind of recoil in fear at this question in this process. About not being there for their life. I don't. I find some confusion about how it works based on what I assume to be a misidentification of self. I know that I will still happen, it's just that "I" won't be there taking it personally.

Yet - I don't default to seeing typing simply type itself, in that sense. There's still a nut in there somewhere pretending I'm doing it.

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Re: Thread for JackSprat

Postby JackSprat » Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:36 pm

I realize I missed your initial question!
What gets in the way now is simply this "me" taking life personally sometimes.

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Re: Thread for JackSprat

Postby Ilona » Wed Mar 18, 2020 8:15 pm

What do you mean by “I won’t be there?” Are you expecting to disappear? There is no i already and even taking a credit for what is happening is simply happening already. Typing is happening already. Reading is happening. Where is the i that reads this? I read the words. We can say that and language suggests a reader that is doing the reading. And where is the reader right now?

Before we go further, let’s explore the language itself and how it works. Here is a little text for you to consider. http://markedeternal.blogspot.com/2012/ ... guage.html

Is I an entity that is doing breathing, sitting, blinking, moving?
What is here without any pretending?

Explore this and write what feels true.

Love.

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Re: Thread for JackSprat

Postby JackSprat » Thu Mar 19, 2020 1:06 pm

No, I don't expect to disappear. That seems silly - especially since I see many other people who have come through here (and subsequently the gate) and not disappeared. Well... as far as I know.

I can't say that I know where the reader is. I read what you wrote and it's just seeing words - my brain interprets the shapes and such - and I know what you're conveying to me, for the most part. I struggle with the sense of the reader being located in my head - much like all the sensations tell me "I" am. However, I can't find a "thing" there.

No. Breathing is what the body does. Blinking is the same; like growing finger nails or hair. It's just what the body does.
Without any pretending, it's all just here. Being done. I don't know by what - that part brings up some fear sensations around the heart. Kind of anxiety-like.

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Re: Thread for JackSprat

Postby Ilona » Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:05 pm

Thank you for replay. Let’s look at the reader. As you are reading these words, is there a gap between the reader and the read? Is reading happening to you?
And look this way, to check if it’s true-
The reader is a label useful to describe what is happening and that’s all. The sensation in the head is here, and that is a sensation + a label. Is that sensation you?

Let’s dive in deeper into labelling. Here is an exercise and a few questions within. http://markedeternal.blogspot.com/2012/ ... s.html?m=1 Do it and look closer is I a label added on or a doer?

Where is the line between doing and happening?
Love.

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Re: Thread for JackSprat

Postby JackSprat » Fri Mar 20, 2020 12:35 pm

Let’s look at the reader. As you are reading these words, is there a gap between the reader and the read? Is reading happening to you?
No. There is no gap. I experience the image of what is written simultaneously to understanding/seeing. Seeing, reading, knowing happen simultaneously. Even as I acknowledge this, there is a little thought that pops up quietly in my mind trying to say it isn't so!
Is that sensation you?
No, I don't think so. Sensations change constantly and there are so many at once. I am aware of them as they change, so the sensations can't be me. The sensation in the head of thought can't be me, either, then.
Do it and look closer is I a label added on or a doer?
When I do the exercise with me/my/I, there is tension in the body. Kind of a slight sensation of anxiety, almost. Around the chest/stomach. When I do it without any of the me/my/I, it feels totally relaxed.
Where is the line between doing and happening?
It seems like this is just semantics. There's no line, or it is very, very blurry and hard to see. I read the sentence again - reading is happening. Reading isn't being done. I don't have to "do" in order to read. It's just read. I don't have to look in order to see. Seeing is what happens when the eyes are open.

I don't have to touch in order to feel. Feeling happens with everything all the time - even when I'm not "touching" anything.

Now, extrapolating.

Everything just happens. No physical response in the body.
I don't exist. Tension in the heart area.

I have no control. Tension.
There is no control. Nothing.

I have no control. Less tension.
I never did. Mental activity just stops. A total "hm" moment. I never had control and I made it "this far?" That's interesting and makes me immediately think of all the unfortunate beings - they don't have control and are so unfortunate. Why me? Why this being?

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Re: Thread for JackSprat

Postby Ilona » Sat Mar 21, 2020 6:42 am

Thank you! How is it going?

When you say I don’t exist it is not true. The tension in heart area confirms that. You are trying to deny your own existence. And you are here, undeniably, right? Even to say that I don’t exist you need to exist.
I does not exist. How does that land in the body? I as a separate self, outside of life, with control and power over what is happening, does not exist. I as an entity, that is managing a little part of life does not exist.

Do you feel the difference?

There is sense of being. There is aliveness. Does that sense need a name? Is that sense in need of identity?
Do you need to spend someone or something in order to be?

Was there ever a separate self in charge?

Love.

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Re: Thread for JackSprat

Postby JackSprat » Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:44 am

How is it going?
Hi! It's going pretty well, but mildly frustrating. It felt clear for a bit and I wasn't grabbing the "me-maker" and instead having the quick follow-on thought that "it's just habit. There's no me" and it was pretty slick. However, I have found that I realize I'm grabbing the I patterns again. Not as much as before, but still happening. That indicates to me that I haven't fully seen the illusion for itself.
When you say I don’t exist it is not true. The tension in heart area confirms that. You are trying to deny your own existence. And you are here, undeniably, right? Even to say that I don’t exist you need to exist.
Yes, and thank you. I do see that. I was trying to play with phrases that would elicit some kind of reaction versus those that wouldn't. The true things versus things that I know aren't but produce a result. Like when referencing "I."
I does not exist. How does that land in the body? I as a separate self, outside of life, with control and power over what is happening, does not exist.
It lands fine. I can, in some sense, feel it literally slide down through "my" being. Does that make sense to you? Like the very idea passes through in a physical way, as energy. In fact, thinking about it, I can feel lots of things do that.
Do you feel the difference?
I feel the difference! Saying I don't exist is clearly not factual and it creates discomfort, whereas stating that "I" is an illusion is less problematic, but still creates the anxiety feeling. If I simply maintain the habit of pointing to the feeling as a sensation will it fall away?
There is sense of being. There is aliveness. Does that sense need a name? Is that sense in need of identity?
Do you need to spend someone or something in order to be?
I can see for myself by looking that... whatever this is... needs nothing. Seeing just sees and requires nothing more. Hearing the same. Sensing touch and such. When I sort of "tap into it," I can feel that it needs no name or identity. It is.
Was there ever a separate self in charge?
There can't ever have been a self in charge if there's not one now. It didn't go anywhere - "I" didn't change in this process. I just have the knowledge that "I" isn't a real thing. This being is a real thing (I can be reminded when I stub my toe! Or when I see seeing as simply seeing) but my name is just a pointer to this grouping of stuff. Therefore, the part I think of as "I" is just a pointer at a grouping of stuff, but isn't the stuff... or the experience of the stuff...or the experience that the stuff experiences around it.

Yea?

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Re: Thread for JackSprat

Postby Ilona » Sat Mar 21, 2020 2:46 pm

Great, thank you. There is an expectation, that something should change, drop or be different. It can be recognised by the word “should”.
At this point really notice, what shoulds and shouldn’ts are here. Like: if I have seen through illusion, then grabbing the i should no longer be happening. Or that this feeling should fall away..

Any should or shouldn’t is step away from seeing what is.
Yes, the stories will continue to feel magnetic and yes, the story about i is continuing, nothing changes, as it wasn’t the i that was doing it. Why would it drop? What would drop? What is the story sticking to?

What is that knows how this should be or should look like?
See, as soon as there is an expectation, there is looking for that result. And the invitation is to meet the moment, this that is, as it is.

Is there a Gateless gate to cross?
Is there I that can cross a gate and come out in the other side?

How do you see that?
Love.

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Re: Thread for JackSprat

Postby JackSprat » Sat Mar 21, 2020 6:46 pm

No, there isn't.

It's done. As a result... the visual field itself is more rich. Nuance in shadow and shade - depth perception is amazing - the location of things in the field of view is startling. it's all truly remarkable.

I don't actually care if "I" exist in the way I thought. It's not relevant, anymore. I experience this. Whatever I am.

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Re: Thread for JackSprat

Postby JackSprat » Sat Mar 21, 2020 6:48 pm

Also - might some thoughts masquerading as I come back? I'm sure, and thank you for pointing to that.

However, rainy clouds sometimes pass by, also.
I don't stay wet forever.

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Re: Thread for JackSprat

Postby Ilona » Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:40 am

Wonderful!

Can you look back to before we started this conversation and tell me what else has changed? What hasn’t changed? What looks different?
Is there any doubt?

Love.


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