help john see

Welcome to the main forum. When you are ready to start a conversation, register and once your application is processed a guide will come to talk to you.
This is one-on-one style forum, one thread per green member.
User avatar
johnthehuman
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:50 am

Re: help john see

Postby johnthehuman » Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:47 pm

This line of inquiry is just frustrating me.

Bananafish
Posts: 3636
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:29 pm
Location: Japan
Contact:

Re: help john see

Postby Bananafish » Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:55 pm

Hi John. :)

I hear you. Questioning a strong belief may well be unpleasant.

Do you want to continue, or take some rest and restart
after a while?


Warm regards,

Bananafish
I'm available for Skype or Zoom face to face conversation. Drop me a line and we could arrange
the date.
Email: swinganova@hotmail.co.jp
Website: https://en.modernkoanproject.com

User avatar
johnthehuman
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:50 am

Re: help john see

Postby johnthehuman » Wed Mar 18, 2020 10:57 pm

I’d like to continue.

Can you please re-clarify what my activity is?

Bananafish
Posts: 3636
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:29 pm
Location: Japan
Contact:

Re: help john see

Postby Bananafish » Wed Mar 18, 2020 11:18 pm

Sure.


We are trying to see through the belief that
there is some kind of concrete entity called "self", separate from
everything else.


(By the way, is this really what you want? Please make sure again
if this is your primary goal, i.e. an end itself)


We are trying to drop all the beliefs about what, where,
when, how self is, and look directly into what is here and now,
without any single conceptualization, and actually see whether
there is such kind of an entity. If something is not there,
of course we can't find it even if we search for it.
If you realize that it is unfindable as there is none of such thing,
the search is over.


I keep telling you to tell where the self is, and
you have kept answering indirectly, so I had you keep focus
on my question and take my question literally, without
any interpretation. Now you are frustrated,
and I'm telling you that might be a result of strong belief being shaken by the
questions. You could see your own indirect answers and unpleadsantless
a flight response to your belief being questioned.


Am I making sense?


Warm regards,

Bananafish
I'm available for Skype or Zoom face to face conversation. Drop me a line and we could arrange
the date.
Email: swinganova@hotmail.co.jp
Website: https://en.modernkoanproject.com

User avatar
johnthehuman
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:50 am

Re: help john see

Postby johnthehuman » Wed Mar 18, 2020 11:28 pm

This makes sense. Thank you for taking the time to write it out. My average response time is going to increase. I’ll get back to you :)

User avatar
johnthehuman
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:50 am

Re: help john see

Postby johnthehuman » Thu Mar 19, 2020 8:49 pm

Here's where I'm at:

I realized I "selfed" by having the though "yes there's a self, I'm right here, talking and listening" and believing the thought. When I stop and notice whats is in my direct experience, I see there is no one there. There is just the experience.

If I am relaxed when I stop and look at the trees and pay attention to my direct experience, there is no one looking, there are just trees. No one is experiencing them

Most of the time thinking still feels like it’s happening to someone.

It seems like I need to be relaxed to see there’s no one there.

Looking forward to your comments back..

Bananafish
Posts: 3636
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:29 pm
Location: Japan
Contact:

Re: help john see

Postby Bananafish » Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:02 pm

Hi John. :)

Your words in your post sound like you've borrowed words from
somewhere (forgive me if I'm wrong), i.e. what someone else said or wrote.

Please don't hurry to get the answers, and be patient in inquiring.

Most of the time thinking still feels like it’s happening to someone.

What is this "feeling" of thoughts happening to someone?
Thought? Image? Sensation? Or something else?

It seems like I need to be relaxed to see there’s no one there.

I see the belief here that you should be "seeing" there's no one
24/7. Is that what you imagine those who "realized" to be?


Another belief is that one can't see there's no self when one is
upset. Is that true? Please try being upset (probably you've become upset
about my reply) and see if there is any concrete, separate self at all
apart from that feeling of being upset.


Warmly,

Bananafish
I'm available for Skype or Zoom face to face conversation. Drop me a line and we could arrange
the date.
Email: swinganova@hotmail.co.jp
Website: https://en.modernkoanproject.com

User avatar
johnthehuman
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:50 am

Re: help john see

Postby johnthehuman » Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:34 pm

What is this "feeling" of thoughts happening to someone?
It's a series of thoughts, leading to a feeling. "yes I'm a self right here" leading to a feeling of trust and confidence in what the ego is saying.

I see the belief here that you should be "seeing" there's no one
24/7. Is that what you imagine those who "realized" to be?
I believe that if one truly see's there no-self, they can look and see that's true anytime they remember. That isn't my experience so far.
Another belief is that one can't see there's no self when one is
upset. Is that true?
For one who's truly realized no-self, I don't believe that is true. See above reply to above quote block.

Bananafish
Posts: 3636
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:29 pm
Location: Japan
Contact:

Re: help john see

Postby Bananafish » Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:43 pm

What is a "feeling of trust and confidence"?
Is it a thought? Image? Sensation? Or something else?

For one who's truly realized no-self, I don't believe that is true.

By this you are saying that, what you are mentioning is a belief of yours.
What about what you call "one who's truly realized no-self"? Is it a belief, too?
I'm available for Skype or Zoom face to face conversation. Drop me a line and we could arrange
the date.
Email: swinganova@hotmail.co.jp
Website: https://en.modernkoanproject.com

User avatar
johnthehuman
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:50 am

Re: help john see

Postby johnthehuman » Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:47 pm

What is a "feeling of trust and confidence"?
It's a feeling in my experience. Out of the three options you provided I think the closest box to fit it in is sensation.
By this you are saying that, what you are mentioning is a belief of yours.
Correct.
What about what you call "one who's truly realized no-self"? Is it a belief, too?
No, I think it's reality. if you deeply truly no self, you can see there is no self in any circumstance.

User avatar
johnthehuman
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:50 am

Re: help john see

Postby johnthehuman » Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:47 pm

ugh I'm not spell checking: allow me to clarify that last line:
No, I think it's reality. if you truly experienced the no self insight, you can see there is no self in any circumstance.

User avatar
johnthehuman
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:50 am

Re: help john see

Postby johnthehuman » Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:51 pm

I guess I'm presupposing you can deeply understand no self. But that seems to have ample evidence in reality from first hand accounts. I think you are wrong if you say that someone who truly experienced no-self cannot bring that insight into experience any time they remember.

User avatar
johnthehuman
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:50 am

Re: help john see

Postby johnthehuman » Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:56 pm

I think I just realized something: I'm believing that the seeing of no-self should last for more than a fraction of a second

Bananafish
Posts: 3636
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:29 pm
Location: Japan
Contact:

Re: help john see

Postby Bananafish » Thu Mar 19, 2020 10:11 pm

Out of the three options you provided I think the closest box to fit it in is sensation.

Where in the body can a sensation of "trust and confidence in a thought" be felt?

I think I just realized something: I'm believing that the seeing of no-self should last for more than a fraction of a second

Yes, and you are trying to verify that belief using another belief; and look,
hasn't it been the primary goal of our inquiry to drop all the beliefs about self?
Belief in no-self is just the upside-down version of the belief in self!
I'm available for Skype or Zoom face to face conversation. Drop me a line and we could arrange
the date.
Email: swinganova@hotmail.co.jp
Website: https://en.modernkoanproject.com

User avatar
johnthehuman
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:50 am

Re: help john see

Postby johnthehuman » Thu Mar 19, 2020 10:18 pm

The sensation of trust and confidence isn’t felt in the body. It’s felt in experience. I see (until I forget).
hasn't it been the primary goal of our inquiry to drop all the beliefs about self?
I’m stuck on this. Can you please help me understand?


Return to “THE GATE”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest