Order of Operations

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TrueLime
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Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2020 7:27 am

Order of Operations

Postby TrueLime » Sun Mar 08, 2020 7:29 am

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
No self I think means no controller, no agent apart from everything else in the world that makes decisions or initiates thoughts or functions as a director of affairs. There is no feeling that one comes to a decision independently and of their own free will, and instead recognize that things happen without outside input, nothing is separate.

What are you looking for at LU?
I'm looking to realize no self directly and break free from my self-imposed prison, come out of suffering and drop away from the stories and traumas that I know I'm holding onto, somewhere in my subconscious. I'm looking for certainty, and I'd like not to spend any more time fumbling around just coping with life and get straight to something I can grab onto, even if it scares me, maybe even if it kills me.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I expect that I'll need to really *look* at the message that my guide is trying to convey, and apply that to my inquiry. I'll need time to simmer with some ideas and may have to sleep on some insights, but I have no idea either if things will hit me in either five minutes or five hours. I notice that when given a prompt, my mind tends to go in several directions initially, which may be something I'll have to reign in to keep laser focus, if I am as serious as I think I am. Other than that I'm not sure what to expect from myself. As for the guide, I place my life in your hands!

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I used to do several types of psychedelics, which brought me to open my mind to a new way of seeing, doing, being. That led me to sporadic meditation over the span of a couple years in which I got to feeling different but didn't really fundamentally change me. I've read Culadasa's The Mind Illuminated and Mckenna's trilogy of books, and I've watched videos on this by Leo on Actualized. I'm familiar with what they talk about, and for each had an intense but short period for which I followed their recommendations, but was unable to stay focused past several weeks. I did them, but I may have been missing something or doing something wrong, because I never felt satisfied with the progress I made.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
9

Bananafish
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Re: Order of Operations

Postby Bananafish » Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:40 pm

Hi TrueLime. :)



My name is Bananafish, one of the guides in this forum.
Nice to meet you, and I'd be glad to help you.



Thanks for the intro, TrueLime.


There I saw you wrote you want something to grab onto,
but what we are discovering here is not something to grab
onto; we inquire so that we won't need anything to grab onto
anymore.

Along with this might come some unpleasant emotions
or thoughts, and we are going to have a look at them, also.

Is that ok for you?



If that's ok for you, please let me know.
We can continue our dialogue.


Warmly,

Bananafish
I'm available for Skype or Zoom face to face conversation. Drop me a line and we could arrange
the date.
Email: swinganova@hotmail.co.jp
Website: https://en.modernkoanproject.com

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TrueLime
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2020 7:27 am

Re: Order of Operations

Postby TrueLime » Tue Mar 10, 2020 12:15 am

Nice to meet you too! :)
There I saw you wrote you want something to grab onto,
but what we are discovering here is not something to grab
onto; we inquire so that we won't need anything to grab onto
anymore.

Along with this might come some unpleasant emotions
or thoughts, and we are going to have a look at them, also.

Is that ok for you?
Understood. I guess the nothing to grab onto part is why it is gateless, haha. And yes, that's ok.

Bananafish
Posts: 3636
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:29 pm
Location: Japan
Contact:

Re: Order of Operations

Postby Bananafish » Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:23 am

Great to hear that! Now, let's begin.


First, could you tell what you want from this conversation?
What is your desired result?
How will life change?


Also, please write about your present situation,
compared to the goal mentioned above.
What is lacking? What are you unsatisfied with?


Please don't hesitate to be 100% honest.


Bananafish
I'm available for Skype or Zoom face to face conversation. Drop me a line and we could arrange
the date.
Email: swinganova@hotmail.co.jp
Website: https://en.modernkoanproject.com

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TrueLime
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2020 7:27 am

Re: Order of Operations

Postby TrueLime » Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:50 am

I want to resolve the fundamental feeling I that something is off, that something is not quite right. I'd like to be able to relax into life completely and stop struggling. I feel like things have been hard for quite a long time. It would be a relief if things would be still, but if I were to see something true and contrary to this goal, that would also be a relief. Things would be smooth, I think.

The dissatisfaction seems to come from internal conflict, I have several thoughts about the proper or best or most joyful way to go about life, such as becoming an accountant, or expressing what I really think, or coming into my role as a good son or brother, just to name a few. To go for some of those goals would leave others not fulfilled. Some of these feelings of obligation come from fear of disappointing others or letting them down.

Bananafish
Posts: 3636
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:29 pm
Location: Japan
Contact:

Re: Order of Operations

Postby Bananafish » Tue Mar 10, 2020 3:29 am

Thank you, TrueLime.


Would it be possible to condense your wants and dissatisfactions
into two or three sentences?


Please try.
I'm available for Skype or Zoom face to face conversation. Drop me a line and we could arrange
the date.
Email: swinganova@hotmail.co.jp
Website: https://en.modernkoanproject.com

User avatar
TrueLime
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2020 7:27 am

Re: Order of Operations

Postby TrueLime » Tue Mar 10, 2020 3:36 am

I think I can boil it to one sentence, actually. I want to be certain about life, whether that means everything will be okay, or everything will not be.

Thanks for your time, by the way. :)

Bananafish
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Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:29 pm
Location: Japan
Contact:

Re: Order of Operations

Postby Bananafish » Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:07 am

My pleasure! :)


Does it imply that you want to know the reality about life ... the truth?
I'm available for Skype or Zoom face to face conversation. Drop me a line and we could arrange
the date.
Email: swinganova@hotmail.co.jp
Website: https://en.modernkoanproject.com

User avatar
TrueLime
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2020 7:27 am

Re: Order of Operations

Postby TrueLime » Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:44 am

reality about life
Major yesses. I'm here to get slapped with truth!

Bananafish
Posts: 3636
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:29 pm
Location: Japan
Contact:

Re: Order of Operations

Postby Bananafish » Tue Mar 10, 2020 6:38 am

Wonderful. :) Well, slap is always an option, btw ... :p


Ok, now, please point at the place in the body
where you feel "you" are. Please choose the part where
you can feel the sense of "you" the most.


Where did yo point at?
I'm available for Skype or Zoom face to face conversation. Drop me a line and we could arrange
the date.
Email: swinganova@hotmail.co.jp
Website: https://en.modernkoanproject.com

User avatar
TrueLime
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2020 7:27 am

Re: Order of Operations

Postby TrueLime » Tue Mar 10, 2020 12:27 pm

It’s nice to have a backup plan, haha!

It was almost a tie with the center of my chest and my face, but it would have to be my chest

Bananafish
Posts: 3636
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:29 pm
Location: Japan
Contact:

Re: Order of Operations

Postby Bananafish » Tue Mar 10, 2020 12:53 pm

Ok, please feel the bodily sensation there
and describe it. You can make an analogy to color, sound,
texture and so on, if that works. Please feel free in your
expression; suppose that you're writing a poem out of that sensation.
I'm available for Skype or Zoom face to face conversation. Drop me a line and we could arrange
the date.
Email: swinganova@hotmail.co.jp
Website: https://en.modernkoanproject.com

User avatar
TrueLime
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2020 7:27 am

Re: Order of Operations

Postby TrueLime » Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:21 pm

Here be dragons.
Devoid of warmth, yet all is burning
Howling, gale force winds come to build
And then trap themselves in stillness
A tense ice

Bananafish
Posts: 3636
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:29 pm
Location: Japan
Contact:

Re: Order of Operations

Postby Bananafish » Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:05 am

Thanks!


What makes that sensation "you?"
Is there a distinctive characteristic that calls for the
name "self" "me" "myself"?


In the meantime, please keep observing that particular sense;
did its quality change after some time spent on observation?
Gently, without pushing, observe with curiosity. You can even say hello
to it and let it speak something.
I'm available for Skype or Zoom face to face conversation. Drop me a line and we could arrange
the date.
Email: swinganova@hotmail.co.jp
Website: https://en.modernkoanproject.com

User avatar
TrueLime
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2020 7:27 am

Re: Order of Operations

Postby TrueLime » Wed Mar 11, 2020 7:29 pm

There isn't anything that says the sensation is mine except for the thought that says "this sensation is me, this is the source of my personality." I've looked at it, and it was all just sensations and thoughts. I tried greeting the sensation, and asking this sensation what it is, what it has to say.

It's got some funny things to say, like "it's dark in here," but also has a good deal of conflict going on.


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