And then there was...

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emclu01
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And then there was...

Postby emclu01 » Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:21 am

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
My experience seems to tell me that there is a real "self." In the small amount of self inquiry I have done, I have had brief glimpses of something that may be pointing to a different truth.

What are you looking for at LU?
I have been a "seeker" for most of my adult life. For many years, my desire was to end suffering. More recently, my direction has changed somewhat. I would like to know the truth, whatever that is. I feel that the guidance at LU may be helpful for me.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
Insight. Felt insight. Insight on the level of my being, not intellectual insight. I'm not sure I have expectations per se as I don't have any idea what will happen internally. I would love for their to be more experiential understanding.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I have practiced several different types of meditation over the years, with varying levels of success, or so it feels to me. More recently, my spiritual practice has included sharing in mutuality groups which has been quite fulfilling for me.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
9

Bananafish
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Re: And then there was...

Postby Bananafish » Sat Mar 07, 2020 9:44 am

Hi emclu01. :) I'm Bananafish, one of the guides in this forum.


Thanks for your intro, and I'd be glad if I could be your guide.


Simply stated, our goal (if any) is to see through the belief-based
illusion that there is a concrete entity "you." We'll aim at very directly seeing
it without any kind of intellectualization.


So, let's begin.


Please point with your finger the place "self" is, tell the exact place (you can put your hand there,
if you want), and describe how it feels.


Looking for your reply!


Bananafish
I'm available for Skype or Zoom face to face conversation. Drop me a line and we could arrange
the date.
Email: swinganova@hotmail.co.jp
Website: https://en.modernkoanproject.com

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emclu01
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:19 am

Re: And then there was...

Postby emclu01 » Sat Mar 07, 2020 2:42 pm

Hi Bananafish,

Thanks for working with me.

I have wondered where this "self" is. And I'm not sure. Somewhere in my head down to my heart area. Pretty successfully hidden since I can't locate an exact spot. Buried deep within lodged emotions is what I've thought at times. Right now if I had to choose a spot, I would say inside my head, behind my eyes.

Bananafish
Posts: 3636
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:29 pm
Location: Japan
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Re: And then there was...

Postby Bananafish » Tue Mar 10, 2020 10:32 am

Hi emclu01. Sorry for not responding for long ...
I haven't noticed that you made a reply.


Could you stay with that particular sensation and
describe it? You can make analogies to color, shape, sound,
or textures when describing it. Imagine writing a poem
out of that sensation. How would it be?


Warm regards,


Bananafish
I'm available for Skype or Zoom face to face conversation. Drop me a line and we could arrange
the date.
Email: swinganova@hotmail.co.jp
Website: https://en.modernkoanproject.com

User avatar
emclu01
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:19 am

Re: And then there was...

Postby emclu01 » Wed Mar 11, 2020 7:43 pm

Hi,

Good to get your reply. I was wondering if my post had been lost in the mail.

This is how the story sometimes goes. This "self" seems to be embedded in my stored emotions. I can see that the self is not my emotions and it is not my physical body, but it seems like it must have a physical component to it and the only place I can imagine it being is within emotions that have gotten stuck.

My stored emotions are like black clouds. They sometimes seem to be in the shape of a tornado or a tube, sometimes motionless and sometimes whirling.

The scenario starts to fall apart when I consider what it is that is stored in the emotions that make up the self. I can't quite get it. The self doesn't seem to be a real thing, yet I can't imagine that it is not real.

The self sometimes seems like the collection of all my thoughts and emotions from the past. But if it is not the emotions and thoughts themselves, then what is it? I don't know.

Bananafish
Posts: 3636
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:29 pm
Location: Japan
Contact:

Re: And then there was...

Postby Bananafish » Wed Mar 11, 2020 10:48 pm

Hi. :) Sorry again for having made you worry about the post.


Ok, I would rather you described the sensation itself,
not the emotion you think is stored.


What kind of sensation is it? It doesn't have to be precisely localized,
not has to be crystal clear. What kind of bodily sensation is
related to self?


Please describe in the same way as you did with "stored emotions."


Best wishes,


Bananafish
I'm available for Skype or Zoom face to face conversation. Drop me a line and we could arrange
the date.
Email: swinganova@hotmail.co.jp
Website: https://en.modernkoanproject.com

User avatar
emclu01
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:19 am

Re: And then there was...

Postby emclu01 » Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:26 pm

Hi Bananafish,

I feel a little silly, but here goes.

If my self is embedded in the swirl of stored emotions within, and the emotions themselves are like black clouds or black wisps in swirling shapes, the self would be little particles or grains of sand that somehow are enmeshed in the black clouds or swirling shapes. Black grains of sand stuck to the emotions. Or threads that are threaded through the emotions. Seamlessly threaded in so that the naked eye would not be able to discern emotion from self.

Another image that comes to mind is that the self is like a stainless steel part, a little part, deeply embedded somewhere in the chest area. Like a little plumbing part, shiny and silvery when not part of the physical body fluids, etc.

I'm not sure about the bodily sensation of the self. I've never thought of it as a bodily sensation.

Bananafish
Posts: 3636
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:29 pm
Location: Japan
Contact:

Re: And then there was...

Postby Bananafish » Sat Mar 14, 2020 2:13 am

Hi emclu1. :)


I meant to ask you to observe the sensation
related to self, rather than telling the images
that you associate with the idea of self.


Observation comes first, and you could
use imagination to find the best description
of that sensation.


Do you get the difference?


The first thing I’d like you to do is
to look for a particular sensation that
relates to the feeling that there is
a separate entity self.


Would you try it again?


Best wishes,

Bananafish
I'm available for Skype or Zoom face to face conversation. Drop me a line and we could arrange
the date.
Email: swinganova@hotmail.co.jp
Website: https://en.modernkoanproject.com

User avatar
emclu01
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:19 am

Re: And then there was...

Postby emclu01 » Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:39 pm

Hi Bananafish,

I am not ignoring you. It's more that I am stumped. Maybe it is like a pressure which seems to be caused by a cluster of thoughts or the slight pressure I feel when I breathe. I don't think I've ever thought in terms of the self as having a sensation.

Bananafish
Posts: 3636
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:29 pm
Location: Japan
Contact:

Re: And then there was...

Postby Bananafish » Mon Mar 16, 2020 10:55 pm

Hi emclu01. :)

Yes, I hear you. Please tell if you feel the inquiry is
getting too intense in terms of unpleasantness.

Maybe it is like a pressure which seems to be caused by a cluster of thoughts or the slight pressure I feel when I breathe.

Could you tell what kind of thoughts they are?

I don't think I've ever thought in terms of the self as having a sensation.

I didn't tell anything about self having a sensation.
I'm telling you to just observe the bodily sensation(s) that you think
is related to self.

Am I making sense?


Warm regards,

Bananafish
I'm available for Skype or Zoom face to face conversation. Drop me a line and we could arrange
the date.
Email: swinganova@hotmail.co.jp
Website: https://en.modernkoanproject.com

User avatar
emclu01
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:19 am

Re: And then there was...

Postby emclu01 » Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:34 pm

Bananafish,

This is not easy for me. What comes to mind is the sensation of my body's weight on the seat of a chair or on the back of a chair, or he sensation of my feel touching the floor.

Sometimes I feel a flowing sensation in the heart area.

User avatar
emclu01
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:19 am

Re: And then there was...

Postby emclu01 » Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:35 pm

Excuse the typos:

the sensation of my feet touching the floor.

Bananafish
Posts: 3636
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:29 pm
Location: Japan
Contact:

Re: And then there was...

Postby Bananafish » Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:36 pm

Hi emcee. :) Thank you for the response.

What comes to mind is the sensation of my body's weight on the seat of a chair or on the back of a chair, or he sensation of my feel touching the floor.

Ok, it seems, from your reply, that you're trying to think about the sensations, but
first, please try to find a particular sensation that you feel is strongly
related to "self." Don't think about it, but look for it. Observe.

Which sensation has a link to the belief in the separate self?


If that "flowing sensation" is the one that applies to the above,
please let me know.


Best wishes,

Bananafish
I'm available for Skype or Zoom face to face conversation. Drop me a line and we could arrange
the date.
Email: swinganova@hotmail.co.jp
Website: https://en.modernkoanproject.com

Bananafish
Posts: 3636
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:29 pm
Location: Japan
Contact:

Re: And then there was...

Postby Bananafish » Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:37 pm

This time, I made a typo ...

I meant emclu01, not "emcee".
I'm available for Skype or Zoom face to face conversation. Drop me a line and we could arrange
the date.
Email: swinganova@hotmail.co.jp
Website: https://en.modernkoanproject.com


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