Peacefulness

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BAYAN
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Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2020 11:43 am

Peacefulness

Postby BAYAN » Sun Mar 01, 2020 11:45 am

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
Up till now our whole life was conditioned by the parents, schools, religion, traditions, belives, gender, media, events, incidents and so on. Based on all this we are started to create a conditioned "person" losing ourselves in it. This is this fake inherent self that we believe we are.

What are you looking for at LU?
To help Bulgarian people to free themselves from the fake self :)
Also here I can find people who is thinking and feeling like me, so we can fully understand each other's and can help and stand for each other.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I don't have any expectations because there is no "me" who can expect :)
I don't exist, there is only peacefulness now after all this search.
It will be great if I can help others to release themselves from the pain of fake self.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
During last 29 years I went through Buddhism, Christianity, Islam, Hermetizm, Sufismus, Beinsa Duno, DAO, Dzen and Hinduism searching of the meaning, understanding that I was searching with wrong "me" in wrong place :)
I practice Martial arts, Thai chi, Qi Gong, Paneuritmia, Yoga and Meditations trying to find real freedom and understanding my Devine nature.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
11

barb
Posts: 1077
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:05 pm

Re: Peacefulness

Postby barb » Sun Mar 08, 2020 2:25 pm

Hi Bayan!

Great that you want to help Bulgarian people to see through the illusion of a separate self :)

Before we begin a few explanations:

This is not a "normal dialogue" Essentially, it's about asking you questions and assigning tasks and you answering them from your direct experience. See what you can do with your five senses and which thoughts you can observe. Look each fresh and do not call you on books you've read or experiences that you have ever made.

You don’t actually have to do anything other than to LOOK with your five senses at what is being pointed at. To see you are already seeing and always have been seeing what actually is. This is not about thinking about something, it is about Direct Experience...

There are no wrong or right answers :)

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If you haven't already seen it, there is intro info here, our disclaimer and a short video too.
http://liberationunleashed.com/

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I don't have any expectations because there is no "me" who can expect :)
Is this your experience or your intellectual understanding?
I don't exist, there is only peacefulness now after all this search.
I know, language is tricky, but can you see there is a difference between: „I don't exist“ and there is no „I“?
It will be great if I can help others to release themselves from the pain of fake self.
Wonderful <3
I practice Martial arts, Thai chi, Qi Gong, Paneuritmia, Yoga and Meditations trying to find real freedom and understanding my Devine nature.
On one hand, you sound pretty clear and as if you've already seen through the illusion. On the other hand, it looks like the search isn't over... :)
How would/should it look like to find real freedom? What is "real freedom? If there is no „I“ what is it that wants to under-stand the Devine nature? What do you mean with Devine nature?

I'm looking forward to your answers :)

Much love, Barb
Looking —> Seeing....Seeing —> Freedom

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BAYAN
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Re: Peacefulness

Postby BAYAN » Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:40 pm

Hi Barb,

Thanks for taking care of me :)
What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I don't have any expectations because there is no "me" who can expect :)
Is this your experience or your intellectual understanding?
It use to be both, when there was a "searcher". Feeling/seeing that thre is no searching, freedom came.
I don't exist, there is only peacefulness now after all this search.
I know, language is tricky, but can you see there is a difference between: „I don't exist“ and there is no „I“?

Yes, there is a quite big difference and this is what I meant under "I don't exist" - conditioned "self" gone. It was direct seeing of this.
I practice Martial arts, Thai chi, Qi Gong, Paneuritmia, Yoga and Meditations trying to find real freedom and understanding my Devine nature.
On one hand, you sound pretty clear and as if you've already seen through the illusion. On the other hand, it looks like the search isn't over... :)
How would/should it look like to find real freedom? What is "real freedom? If there is no „I“ what is it that wants to under-stand the Devine nature? What do you mean with Devine nature?
O it is over :) Only existing left :) The life by itself :)
Real freedom would/should look like nothing - everything is coming and going without reaction - only peacefulness
At the beginning there was "I" who was trying to understand divinity, because everybody was telling to that "I" that it is God. At that time question arrise "What is to be a God in a humant body". Answer came shortly - everyting is happeninig in its perfection and harmony so who are "ÿou" who are constantly judging. From then there is no fake "me" who judge, then peace came...
Devine nature = Peace

Hugs

barb
Posts: 1077
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:05 pm

Re: Peacefulness

Postby barb » Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:05 pm

Thanks for taking care of me :)
It' my pleasure <3
O it is over :) Only existing left :) The life by itself :)
Beautiful :)
Real freedom would/should look like nothing - everything is coming and going without reaction - only peacefulness
What if there is reaction, is this not also what is happening? Is there someone how has control, or happens everything on its own?
At the beginning there was "I" who was trying to understand divinity, because everybody was telling to that "I" that it is God. At that time question arrise "What is to be a God in a humant body". Answer came shortly - everyting is happeninig in its perfection and harmony so who are "ÿou" who are constantly judging. From then there is no fake "me" who judge, then peace came...
Sounds wonderful...
Devine nature = Peace
We are working here with Direct Pointing – Direct Experience (DE). This is seeing-hearing-sensing-tasting-smelling-thinking (not the content of thought but the perception of thinking)

What is this „Peace“ in (DE)? What of this is felt and what is thought content? Isn't Peace also an experience? What if there comes a time when there is not peace but pain? Would this mean that there is an „I“ then?

:)
Looking —> Seeing....Seeing —> Freedom

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BAYAN
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Re: Peacefulness

Postby BAYAN » Tue Mar 10, 2020 4:27 pm

What if there is reaction, is this not also what is happening? Is there someone how has control, or happens everything on its own?
Under "reaction" it was meant psychical, mental, conditioned reaction. Pure reaction of the senses is what is happening, but if there is a description of what is happening then mind with its conditions is in force.
Everything is happening on its own but there is also attention with its free will who can influent on what is happens.
Any kind of control brings suffer and pain, because is coming from the conditioned mind.
We are working here with Direct Pointing – Direct Experience (DE). This is seeing-hearing-sensing-tasting-smelling-thinking (not the content of thought but the perception of thinking)
What is this „Peace“ in (DE)? What of this is felt and what is thought content? Isn't Peace also an experience? What if there comes a time when there is not peace but pain? Would this mean that there is an „I“ then?

This "peace" is a direct experience of your true nature where parasite thoughts are no longer persist (there is no "me" who suffer and feel pain).
Feeling is that you experience life directly, without description and in brain there is no content, just pure perception.
In Peace all experiences are happening (there is no one who describe anything)
Pain and time can exist only if there is fake "me" ("ME", my body, my gender, my traditions, my religion, my nationality, my wife, my pet, etc). Pain can come on physical body some day, but it is on the body and not on the mind. So you can do your best for your body to heal it without emotionalizing during the healing.

barb
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Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:05 pm

Re: Peacefulness

Postby barb » Wed Mar 11, 2020 11:59 am

Language is a little bit tricky, especially since English is neither your nor my first language... :)

If I understand you right, then you are 100% sure that there is no separate entity "I", and the search is over...?

If this is the case, then I can give you some obligatory final questions, where we can have a look at if something wants to be investigated deeper. Is there anything you want to investigate further?
Looking —> Seeing....Seeing —> Freedom

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BAYAN
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Re: Peacefulness

Postby BAYAN » Wed Mar 11, 2020 4:19 pm

Language is a little bit tricky, especially since English is neither your nor my first language... :)
Yes, indeed :) In English one word have many meanings and in Bulgarian one thing you can describe with many words :)

If I understand you right, then you are 100% sure that there is no separate entity "I", and the search is over...?
Separate entity "I" can/must exists in the material world of facts. We use this "I" to work, cook, identify, care, driving car, etc, living daily in the visible world of facts (but only what it is - facts) using mind and thoughts (not parasite thoughts).
This "I" can use the 5 senses to enjoy life accepting everything that is coming in and leaving freely everything that is going out without tying. Se one can enjoy the kiss and hugs when it comes and leave them when they gone without suffering. Then this kiss and this hug is real and are felt as something complete and not fragmented :)
But If we go beyond the world of facts, left to be attracted and bound to some of those facts, where wishes arising and mind conditions, then fake "me" is into force and suffer begins.
The search is over when one "sees" through the illusion of fake "me"! Fake "me" who uses conditioned mind to attract to nice things that eyes see, mouth taste, nose smells and hand feels :) and when those things are gone "he" want to have them again and again perpetually...
Search is over when one is free from all the wishes, expectations, fears, attractions of the fake "me". Then peace came and real life begins. Then the one is becoming the observer of the thoughts (when they are needed) in the brain, feels here and now life with its senses (freely) in the real present moment enjoying it :) Then everything become very very simple :) Life is floating without any obstacles (the idea of "me" is the biggest obstacle).

If this is the case, then I can give you some obligatory final questions, where we can have a look at if something wants to be investigated deeper. Is there anything you want to investigate further?
Investigation ends when search ends, when freedom and peace came into the present moment (no conditionality at all). Then there is only Direct Experience of life with 5/6 senses and with present observer.
But to really understand life, one must have complex/complete approach where mentality (the important one) is one from the couple of another things like, breathing, relaxation, movement, eating and sleeping.

Do you want to investigate something with me Barb?

barb
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Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:05 pm

Re: Peacefulness

Postby barb » Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:25 pm

The search is over when one "sees" through the illusion of fake "me"! Fake "me" who uses conditioned mind to attract to nice things that eyes see, mouth taste, nose smells and hand feels :) and when those things are gone "he" want to have them again and again perpetually...
Search is over when one is free from all the wishes, expectations, fears, attractions of the fake "me". Then peace came and real life begins. Then the one is becoming the observer of the thoughts (when they are needed) in the brain, feels here and now life with its senses (freely) in the real present moment enjoying it :) Then everything become very very simple :) Life is floating without any obstacles (the idea of "me" is the biggest obstacle).
How is it for you? Can you give me a „yes“ that you have seen, that there is no separate „I“? Just yes or no... :)

If yes I will give you the questions... :)
Looking —> Seeing....Seeing —> Freedom

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BAYAN
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Re: Peacefulness

Postby BAYAN » Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:39 pm

Yes

barb
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Re: Peacefulness

Postby barb » Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:50 am

Here they are:

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Take as much time you need for answering... :)

Much love <3 _()_
Looking —> Seeing....Seeing —> Freedom

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BAYAN
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Re: Peacefulness

Postby BAYAN » Thu Mar 12, 2020 4:48 pm

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
Thanks :)
And here are my answers:
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
No, there is not and never was! It can be created by mind and thoughts during lifetime of the body and after death will disappear again.
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
The Illusion of separate self is to believe:
- that conditioned mind is "me"
- that your are the body, the gender, the nationality, etc
- that you are separate/different from the others
- that the problems, fear and pain are yours
- that you are personality
- that you have possessions
- that you are guilty for something
- that you can be insulted (if there no one to be insulted, there is no need of forgiveness)
- that wife, husband, car, child, pet, car, flat are yours
- etc.
It starts since we started to watch and hear as babies. Accumulating in the brain as memory all that we hear, see, feel, taste and smell. All incidents in our live, educations, media, movies, TV and experiences are stored as memories.
Based on all this stored data the one act. But this act is always from the past, because memories are the past, so one is never in the present moment feeling real life. This knowledge is always limited.
Having all this, the mind little by little becomes conditioned. Then attractions to many things appear, and then desires and bondage to those things and then the one lose himself in all this.
The one using facts in life creates ideas and believes and follow them, stucked to them, and so freedom disappear and separate self appear.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
Peacefulness and freedom!
This state is long before we started this dialog.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?
The question "What is to be on Universe's place?". Answering to this question, everything came on its right place as it always was!
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
Decisions are good to be made only based on the facts and not on the idea of the facts. If you love life and you are in peace, then all decisions for physical body and its movement are perfect. Beyond body there is no need of decisions, because everything is in its perfect order!
Intentions - based on freedom of "me", there are no intentions, just things coming and going without tension. Life happens without efforts, right people and situation are coming and going
Free will is a freedom to choose to react or not on the coming and going things (to react at all)
Choices again are happening by itself's - no need to bother to choose :)
Control is not existing - everything is in its perfect place. There is no need of control!
What makes things happen? - don't know and don't care. One is certain - what is happening must be happened - to teach, to awake, to release. On other side attention with its choices makes things happen (but which attention and whose choices)
It works very simple and easy. Just relax and be free and everything is happening by its own and you can just shape it.
I'm responsible for my peacefulness, radiating love. From this condition It can be shown/seen what real life is and can be helped others to free themselves from the illusion.
When my parents and friends sees me in various situations in center and calm, having peaceful strength they wanted to know how is this possible.
My last 4 jobs found me without any search from my side, I just allowed things to come in life without any idea of retention. Fully present in life in freedom and everything takes its right place.
6) Anything to add?
Nothing to add.

barb
Posts: 1077
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:05 pm

Re: Peacefulness

Postby barb » Fri Mar 13, 2020 4:05 am

Hi :)

Some further questions from an other guide:

Could you ask BAYAN what mind is?


Also, could you ask to think of one recent situation in which
s/he got upset, angry, sad, or whatever emotion rose, and
tell in detail what happened in that situation?


Much love, barb
Looking —> Seeing....Seeing —> Freedom

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BAYAN
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Re: Peacefulness

Postby BAYAN » Fri Mar 13, 2020 3:53 pm

Hi,

Love questions ;)
Could you ask BAYAN what mind is?
Basically who care what mind is, just be present in life and that's it, nothing more needed! Everything else are concepts of the mind and bla bla bla :)
On other hand Mind is accumulated memories, incidents, facts, etc, from borne till now. How the one will use it, free will. He can suffer or he can be free of concepts, ideas, predictions, etc.

Also, could you ask to think of one recent situation in which
he got upset, angry, sad, or whatever emotion rose, and
tell in detail what happened in that situation?
Very rare cases used to happened once a week for couple of seconds.
I see the emotion as an observer of what is happening at that specific moment, and in the very moment of seeing it directly, emotion disappear (no one to feed it)
Recently (last couple of months) there are no thoughts at all. Only when I'm at work, I use them to work - no emotions - just peace and pure perception of what it is.

Kisses

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BAYAN
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Re: Peacefulness

Postby BAYAN » Fri Mar 13, 2020 4:23 pm

Barb

This weekend I'll be off the grid (no phone, no internet).
See you on Monday 16-th

Love :)

barb
Posts: 1077
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:05 pm

Re: Peacefulness

Postby barb » Sat Mar 14, 2020 1:09 pm

Thank you for your answers and for letting me know that you are off this weekend :)

This question comes up:
How the one will use it, free will. He can suffer or he can be free of concepts, ideas, predictions, etc.

Is this true, that there is free will, and that "one" can choose? For whom would there be free will?


Here is a little experiment regarding choices: (Please try and do it for real and not only in mind... :))

Lift your right or left arm (or leave it down). While lifting or not lifting a decision happens, at least something happens (or not).

Can you find the exact moment of decision and find the concrete essence which seems to make a decision? Is it really possible to find the moment of decision as well as the apparent "decider"? Or does the idea "I
decided to lift (or not) the right or left arm” emerge only after the actual event?


Here is again a tricky language question, just to clarify... ;)
You wrote:
I see the emotion as an observer of what is happening
Can there really an observer be found? Is there separation like an observer - observing - observed? Or is there just observing going on?

Much Love :)
Looking —> Seeing....Seeing —> Freedom


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