Freedom

[Sush]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
From reading lots of books on Spirituality , I do understand that there is no me or self .Life is happening ,and I am just the observer of life.

What are you looking for at LU?
There is so much confusion , frustration .When I am alone ,and also when I am meditating I get that I am not an entity,I am not the thinker, I am not my body or the emotions and sense perceptions. But when I am with my friends or my family all their fears feels so real and I get sucked into it.I have beliefs which does not let me believe that I am a separate self, or I am not my mind. I would like LU guides to help me with letting go of those believes.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I would really appreciate if they could help in letting go of believes and help me get to a point where in I get that there is no self. My family or friends don't get my obsession with spirituality and I have some questions about the no separate self ,which I am not able to find answer. If I can find a a guide who could help me answer those questions I would be really grateful. Thanks

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I have been reading spiritual books for about 4 to 5 years now. And I have been meditating for 4 years and journaling for 2 to 3 years. I have been questioning my beliefs too with the help of Byron Katies worksheet.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10

[Bananafish]

Hello, Sush. :)


My name is Bananafish, one of the guides here in this forum.
I'd be more than glad to help you.


Thanks for the detailed intro ... there I noticed that you wrote
"I have beliefs which does not let me believe that I am a separate self,"
and having read it, it seemed to me that you're trying to acquire another belief about no self.


Would that be what you want?


What do you expect to happen when you have realized that there is no separate
entity called self?


Looking for your reply!


Bananafish

[Sush]

Hi Bananafish,

Thank you so much for offering to guide me.

I have beliefs which does not let me believe that I am a separate self,"
and having read it, it seemed to me that you're trying to acquire another belief about no self.


Would that be what you want?

No , that is not what I want .I would love to let go of all my beliefs.

What do you expect to happen when you have realized that there is no separate
entity called self?
My expectation is that,I will stop identifying with the thoughts. and be at peace with the present moment.And I know I have to let go of these expectations too.

Thank You,
Sush

[Bananafish]

Hi Sush! Thanks for the reply.


Ok, as I can see from your post, you think you identify with thoughts;
let's have a look.


When you "identify with thoughts," what is it that identifies with thoughts?
Could you try to observe your actual experience of identifying with thoughts,
and describe it as precisely as possible?


Best regards,


Bananafish

[Sush]

Hi Bananafish,

When you "identify with thoughts," what is it that identifies with thoughts?

The sense of me identifies with the the thought.

Could you try to observe your actual experience of identifying with thoughts,
and describe it as precisely as possible?

When I identify with the thoughts,I can feel lots of sensation in my body, and then my thought started labelling it has fear, frustration , expectation.And then another thought came in stating, since you are not in control of anything ,since you are not the doer ,why is there so much trying? why can't you let the life be just as it is , stop all this inquiry and be in this moment. With these many thoughts pouring in, it is getting harder not to identify with them ,question them.And when you question the thoughts there is more confusion ,it is a vicious circle.

Regards,
Sush

[Bananafish]

Hi. :)


Let's have a look at what you call "sense of me."


What kind of sense is it? Can you feel a felt bodily sensation that is
relevant to that sense?


Also, what makes you think that you have to "question the thoughts?"
Is that what you have read or have bee taught by someone?

Why do you do it when the result is more confusion?


Warm wishes,

Bananafish

[Sush]

Hi Bananafish :)

Let's have a look at what you call "sense of me."


What kind of sense is it? Can you feel a felt bodily sensation that is
relevant to that sense?

When I looked ,Sense of me was a thought. There was only sensation in the body ,but no sensation relevant to the sense of me.

Also, what makes you think that you have to "question the thoughts?"
Is that what you have read or have bee taught by someone?

I have read Byron Katies book which mentions question your beliefs and answer the four questions which she mentions in her book . And when you answer them it helps to know that they are not true then you can let them go. That is what I have ben doing for years questioning my thoughts and beliefs.

Why do you do it when the result is more confusion?

I thought that was the only way to let go of my beliefs. :-)

Thanks
Sush

[Sush]

Let's have a look at what you call "sense of me."


What kind of sense is it? Can you feel a felt bodily sensation that is
relevant to that sense?

When I looked more,I realized identifying with thought was nothing but a label.

[Bananafish]

Hi Sush. :)


Thanks! During this inquiry, it is important not to make
anyone and anything an authority, including me.


It would be nice to set aside Byron Katie if that doesn't produce the result
you want, after a sincere try. Your inquiry is unique to you, and there is no formula for it, ok?
Please experiment, play with the tools, and discard it
if it doesn't work; then, you'll see what works the best. LU is one of the options
for you, not a panacea for all the suffering. At least, that has been my own experience so far.


In addition, it's important to be 100% honest with the inquiry.
People end up saying "there is no self" or "self is a thought," "self is a label," which
is a mere intellectualization or generalization. So, it's crucial that you
check your understanding with your gut feeling, and let your gut decide whether
it was just ideas, concepts or not.



Having said that, I want to check if your understanding is
still intellectual or not.


Do you feel a visceral sense of your perception of reality shifting (having shifted)?


Warm regards,


Bananafish

[Sush]

Hi Bananafish,

Having said that, I want to check if your understanding is
still intellectual or not.

I am still not sure whether the understanding is intellectual or not :-( , May be I need some more time looking.

Thanks
Sush

[Bananafish]

Hi Sush. :)

May be I need some more time looking.

Is this true? I may sound harsh, but it sounds like
you are using the concept of time as an excuse for not truly observing
and penetrating right now.


Please say this out loud; "Sense of me is just a thought."

What does saying this bring up? Search for any sensations (not thoughts)
that arise and check with it whether you've viscerally understood what you've said aloud.


Please report. :)



Warm regards,


Bananafish

[Sush]

Hi Bananafish,

Please say this out loud; "Sense of me is just a thought."

What does saying this brings up? Search for any sensations (not thoughts)
that arise and check with it whether you've viscerally understood what you've said aloud.

There wasn't any noticeable sensation when I said "Sense of me is just a thought" aloud.
One more thing I am noticing is that there are not as many thoughts as I used to have before.

Thanks
Sush

[Bananafish]

Hello Sush. :)


In my experience, seeing through the illusion isn't always
related to how many thoughts you have; although it's possible
that you don't care about them so much.


So, it's important not to
regard it as something that is guaranteeing your "making progress"
towards something.



Is there any bodily part that relates to this "sense of me" you've been
talking about?


Please point with your finger at where you feel "self" is.
Don't let any ideas about self interfere.

Just tell the exact place your finger tends to move.


Warmly,


Bananafish

[Sush]

Hi Bananafish,

Is there any bodily part that relates to this "sense of me" you've been
talking about?

When I am meditating I don’t find any sense of me in any part of my body. But if I think some exciting or fearful thought I can feel the sense of me in my heart. It feels like it is ‘me’ who is having the sensation but that is the immediate reaction. After the initial reaction I am able to see that the reactions are simply sensations in the body.

Thanks
Sush

[Bananafish]

Hi. :)


Did you actually do the pointing?

It is important to see things here and now, and refrain from
making something in the past a reference point.


Again, right now, please point with your finger at where you feel "self" is.
Just tell the exact place your finger tends to move.


Best wishes,


Bananafish