Woodland Flowers

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aconite7
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Re: Woodland Flowers

Postby aconite7 » Thu Mar 05, 2020 4:00 pm

Thanks PK.
Makes total sense. I was trying too hard to make something more out of it.

Rob

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Seamist
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Re: Woodland Flowers

Postby Seamist » Tue Mar 10, 2020 10:32 am

Hi Rob,
Makes total sense
oh good
I was trying too hard to make something more out of it.
a common problem, that one. Well spotted!

Sit quietly and relax, take your time just looking at what is in front of you for awhile.
Observe how the mind is dividing and labelling every thing into objects and is embellishing them with stories about what they are.
Give it some time
Then, stop watching the objects as labelled objects. Just look at the seeing itself. Observe the pure process of seeing. This is direct experience (DE).

xx PK

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Seamist
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Re: Woodland Flowers

Postby Seamist » Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:09 am

How are doing, Rob?
x Prabhakari

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aconite7
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Re: Woodland Flowers

Postby aconite7 » Thu Mar 12, 2020 5:36 pm

Hi PK,

Thanks for this and sorry for the slow reply. Our internet has been out so I'm now at a cafe.

Moving toward DE takes quite a lot of effort/concentration to bring to the fore. I have to be very careful to note all the mental fabrications, naming them as such. They come thick and fast, in many layers. Then I can get some glimpses. It's a bit like the 2-D animated experience I was mentioning before, but maybe richer. Immediately after meditation its easier, and now after eating a slice of cake, its a lot harder to approach the state.

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Seamist
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Re: Woodland Flowers

Postby Seamist » Fri Mar 13, 2020 10:49 am

Hi Rob
Glad to hear from you
Our internet has been out
Ah!

But is there some resistance, too?
Moving toward DE takes quite a lot of effort/concentration to bring to the fore.
it doesn't need to be this hard! You're just being nudged, in the work we do, to look at what you find through the senses: there's no big deal to that!
I have to be very careful to note all the mental fabrications, naming them as such. They come thick and fast, in many layers.
It sounds like you're getting into knots: There is no need to do this! It's really very simple. You just need to look for what's there. Thoughts will of course come up, don't get caught up in them.

So, in the last exercise...
Sit quietly and relax, take your time just looking at what is in front of you for awhile.
Observe how the mind is dividing and labelling every thing into objects and is embellishing them with stories about what they are.
Give it some time
Then, stop watching the objects as labelled objects. Just look at the seeing itself. Observe the pure process of seeing. This is direct experience (DE).
Notice the labelling, but just notice - there's no need to explore it in any way. Labelling will happen, as will stories, just clock them.
Then just notice

Maybe try giving it another go?
xx

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aconite7
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Re: Woodland Flowers

Postby aconite7 » Sun Mar 15, 2020 10:06 am

Ok. I'll try again. Less striving.

It's interesting to watch my mind fabricating or just working with outside perceptions. They seem to arise together. If my mind is not reaching out it doesn't seem to be there or I can't see it. it seems if I don't reach out and interact with the things I call books in front of me the mind doesn't emerge.
Most of the time my mind is so engaged with the things around me there is no space for it too to settle down. Feels permanent because it's always active.
I want to call it my mind but it seems to just be an energy that reaches out from me to the things around me me, and maybe they're not even things until I do that.
That's what's coming up from the exercise this morning. Quite different
Thanks

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Seamist
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Re: Woodland Flowers

Postby Seamist » Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:09 am

Hi again.
Keep coming back to direct experience - (by which I sight/hearing/taste/touch/smell ONLY). This is the essential method to become familiar with in this work - thought won't help you here.
Try this:
Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply colour/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.
So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:-
Seeing a cup, simply= image/colour
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought
Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual/direct experience) and report back how you go.

x

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aconite7
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Re: Woodland Flowers

Postby aconite7 » Mon Mar 16, 2020 10:45 pm

Finding this hard with prep for my spirituality and mental health workshop I'm running on Friday, no internet, and societal anxiety in the air. But my experiments so far show a radical simplicity in my experience when I do this. Part of me feels quite uncomfortable, wants to make more stories, move faster. Mainly I enjoy the break through, some inner quiet. I look forward to doing this more tomorrow

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Seamist
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Re: Woodland Flowers

Postby Seamist » Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:58 am

Hi Rob
I'm suggesting to some people that we have a pause at this point, given the strange time we're in. Let me know if you would prefer that?
xx PK

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aconite7
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Re: Woodland Flowers

Postby aconite7 » Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:46 pm

Thanks for the kind offer PK.
I'm up for continuing if you don't mind slightly slower responses. I should have WiFi back tomorrow if all goes well. This will make responding easier too. Other things are likely to cancel so I light not far off.
I'll try and respond in the morning.
Many thanks, Rob

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Seamist
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Re: Woodland Flowers

Postby Seamist » Wed Mar 18, 2020 10:34 am

Ok. Yes, I'm anticipating having more time too. I'm quite looking forward to it!

Have a look at an apple. If you have a ‘real’ apple, you can use it for this exercise.
http://www.maryshomestead.com/sitebuild ... /fruit.gif

When looking at an apple, there's colour; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."
What is known for sure? Colour is known and thoughts are known.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?
Actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only just more thought. Actual experience is sound, thought, colour, smell, taste, sensation.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?
Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in actual experience.

This is what is meant by ‘looking in actual experience ‘. What you know for sure, and, is always here.

Taste labelled ‘apple’ is known
Colour labelled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labelled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labelled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known
However, is an apple actually known?


Keep well xx

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aconite7
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Re: Woodland Flowers

Postby aconite7 » Thu Mar 19, 2020 10:01 pm

That's a good exercise! There is no "apple"
I'm having a hard time putting my finger on what it is, but maybe that's the point. Its not a thing, but a set of experiences my mind makes into a thing. Actual experience seems much more ephemeral.

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Seamist
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Re: Woodland Flowers

Postby Seamist » Fri Mar 20, 2020 2:22 pm

Hi Rob
Great looking, lovely.
And...
Let’s do some observing now to further explore the difference between mental construction and direct experience.
Try this: Choose an ordinary object in the room. Maybe a vase of flowers or something that has interesting and varied visual qualities
1. Close your eyes and picture it in your mind for a minute or two.
2. Open your eyes and observe it directly for a while.
Describe both experiences. The first one of what was happening directly in the mind sense and then the second one of what you experienced in the visual sense.
Also tell me the difference between these two experiences.

xx

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aconite7
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Re: Woodland Flowers

Postby aconite7 » Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:33 am

In the first part of the exercise the image was unstable, my mind wandered so the image came and went. I couldn't remember much detail so think I made some up.
The actual plant is much more vibrant, feels very present. There are rich and varied colours. My mind feels more alert to it, engaged with it, enjoying looking
The difference is "imagined plant" is far more wavering. It's an experience of very different kind. Visual experience was more vivid, unwavering. I'm not sure what else to say...

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Seamist
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Re: Woodland Flowers

Postby Seamist » Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:33 am

Hi Rob
Lovely noticing - and your answer is plenty long enough. You have seen the difference, which is what the point is.

Let’s go through the other senses in the same way.
Hearing.
a) Imagine first the sound of a meditation gong (or something similar). Describe exactly how you imagined that. What were the qualities?
b) Then sound the gong and listen with your whole being. Describe that also as fully as you can.
c) Tell me the difference.

xx


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