Woodland Flowers

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aconite7
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Re: Woodland Flowers

Postby aconite7 » Wed Feb 26, 2020 11:28 pm

Hi Prabhakari,

I imagine a fairy tale ending, where everything is going to be alright. Then people will respect me and quietly whisper about the difference I've made. I will feel good about myself, I will feel important, worthwhile. The opposite to the fraud I sometimes feel now. So I will be authentic, and really good at what I do. I want to avoid the messiness of mistakes and being seen to fail. So I will be perfect.
A liberated person is perfect, is at ease always, knows how to respond and never makes mistakes.They are looked up to like a hero. I must avoid looking the opposite at all costs.This desire is well ingrained in me, very hard to dislodge.

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Seamist
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Re: Woodland Flowers

Postby Seamist » Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:07 am

Hi Rob
Some wonderful expectations there! I especially like
I will be perfect.
Honestly explored and shared, which I appreciate.
You won't be surprised, I think, to hear that it won't be like that! In fact, whatever you expect, it won't be like that.
Now that your expectations are out in the open, put them aside for the time being - expectations just get in the way.
Is that ok?

now...your first exercise:
Imagine that you are holding a spoon. Imagine form, size, weight, temperature, keep it there, close your eyes, and feel the imaginary spoon.
Open your eyes; is there a spoon here, in real life?
So how did you see that there is no spoon?
What happened to the spoon?
Did it disappear or it never existed?


x Prabhakari

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aconite7
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Re: Woodland Flowers

Postby aconite7 » Thu Feb 27, 2020 11:50 pm

I look forward to doing this in the morning, hopefully before my 10am appointment, or at about 11am if not.. many thanks

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aconite7
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Re: Woodland Flowers

Postby aconite7 » Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:14 am

Thanks Prabhakari,

As you can see from my last answer, I'm trying to go with the less intellectual side of my personality. I can probably produce lots of clever answers, but I'm trying to be a bit more primitive about this process, which is what rules my show almost all the time. (this is a handy insight for me already)

My intellect, backed up with a bit of experience, says the spoon existed in the same way as the spoon in my drawer exists. Can't think how to put that into words though. Not concretely. Part of the collective story? I don't want to give it a negative spin, as its not negative. It's less delusion, and more an honest mis-perception. And I am thoroughly caught up in it most of the time.

Most of the time the imagined spoon never existed, whereas the one in my drawer does. I wouldn't think otherwise. The spoon was fabricated based on other spoons i'd seen. But now, having said what I did in the last paragraph, nothing looks quite the same any more. Something shifted there. Reminds me of my last retreat when suddenly the trees felt like they joined me in a 2-D animated world that looked 3-D before. Animated films do look 3_d but I can see through that sometimes.

Thanks, Rob

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Seamist
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Re: Woodland Flowers

Postby Seamist » Fri Feb 28, 2020 8:10 pm

Hi Rob
I can probably produce lots of clever answers
that's definitely not what's required here
It's less delusion, and more an honest mis-perception. And I am thoroughly caught up in it most of the time.
good, well-spotted
But now, having said what I did in the last paragraph, nothing looks quite the same any more. Something shifted there. Reminds me of my last retreat when suddenly the trees felt like they joined me in a 2-D animated world that looked 3-D before. Animated films do look 3_d but I can see through that sometimes.
great! You ok with that?

Here is another exercise:

Close your eyes and imagine you are in the kitchen. Just visualize and look around, notice where things are put. Notice the space, the feel of it.
This is an image, it can trigger feelings and contractions - expansions, thought stories and feelings attached to them.

Open the eyes and see how an image can be created and explored in the mind.

Go to the kitchen and look at the same things that you saw in the image, how does imagining and experiencing the same things differ? Is the image of the kitchen and experience of the kitchen the same?

xx

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aconite7
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Re: Woodland Flowers

Postby aconite7 » Sat Feb 29, 2020 9:34 pm

Hi Prabhakari,
(lets try the quote thing)
great! You ok with that?
It is ok. Thanks for checking.

But this next exercise lifts the stakes a bit. I feel the fear jump up immediately. In lots of ways they seem very much the same, much more so that I had anticipated. When I think about them being the same then the fear arises about what is waking life if it isn't seeing "reality"? Of course we could talk about the difference between "actuality" and "my reality" and I calm down immediately. "Actuality" sounds better than the imagined lack of any basis for my being, which comes when I notice the similarities between what I can see in the kitchen and what I imagine.

That said, looking at the clock in the kitchen for example. I can see a lot more detail in the clock when I look closely at it, rather than when I imagine it. There is something of that object that seems objective. I can look and see the detail I couldn't while imagining, and someone else can come along and confirm that also, if they really look. So there is something about "really looking", or mindfulness, which I can't seem to be able to relate to this subject at the minute.

So 2 things: 1) Fear arising at the thought that reality on the inside and outside are the same, the me that thinks it sees objective reality is a false concept.
2) There seems to be something that is seen in waking reality that is verifiable.

Thanks, Rob

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Seamist
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Re: Woodland Flowers

Postby Seamist » Sun Mar 01, 2020 11:55 am

Hi Rob
That's great.
Repeat using the bathroom this time
xx

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aconite7
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Re: Woodland Flowers

Postby aconite7 » Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:21 am

Hi Prabhakari
Maybe its because I woke up not that long ago, but walking into the bathroom felt like stepping into a dream. In my imagination I saw the room from a lower angle so everything looked different. Things were in different places than I imagined. The light was slightly darker. Its slightly unnerving because it feels slightly like being in a film where I'm looking for clues about a lurking alien. It's like something is wrong but can't tell what.
(That's it, its like the glitch in the matrix film, when he sees the black cat for the second time.)
That's all I noticed today...

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Seamist
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Re: Woodland Flowers

Postby Seamist » Tue Mar 03, 2020 11:29 am

What happened when you then went to look at the actual bathroom? Was it the same? Or different?
x

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aconite7
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Re: Woodland Flowers

Postby aconite7 » Tue Mar 03, 2020 5:50 pm

Sorry I didn't explain that very well. That was a description of my experience of the actual bathroom after I had imagined it.

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Seamist
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Re: Woodland Flowers

Postby Seamist » Tue Mar 03, 2020 6:09 pm

That was a description of my experience of the actual bathroom after I had imagined it.
Ah! My mistake, I think. That's very interesting, don't you think?

If I was to tell you that Santa is real, would you see it in the room right now? Can you see the difference between real and imagined?/b]
x

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Seamist
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Re: Woodland Flowers

Postby Seamist » Thu Mar 05, 2020 12:25 am

How are you doing, Rob?

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Seamist
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Re: Woodland Flowers

Postby Seamist » Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:37 am

PS I'm going to be off-line for a few days as from this afternoon - back on tuesday morning (my time)
xx

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aconite7
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Re: Woodland Flowers

Postby aconite7 » Thu Mar 05, 2020 11:01 am

Hello sorry for the slower response. Maybe some resistance on my part.
If I was to tell you that Santa is real, would you see it in the room right now?
I don't understand this comment. Is this an example of saying something like "don't think of pink elephants", and all you can think about is pink elephants? And if I imagine Santa, does that mean he's in the room right now?
Can you see the difference between real and imagined?
But this one I can understand more. There are lots of differences between waking reality and imagined reality, at least on the gross level. It seems to be more subtle levels where the similarities are more pronounced. In terms of how I react emotionally they seem very similar. It's like I inhabit both with equal energy, reacting and responding, opening and closing. The imagined is real in that it's here in my mind, just as this room and computer are here in my mind. That's interesting to say, the rooom is here in my mind. I was talking to friend last night about how all we ever see is light, and we make it into things we can understand...

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Seamist
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Re: Woodland Flowers

Postby Seamist » Thu Mar 05, 2020 11:57 am

Hi Rob
If I was to tell you that Santa is real, would you see it in the room right now?
I don't understand this comment. Is this an example of saying something like "don't think of pink elephants", and all you can think about is pink elephants? And if I imagine Santa, does that mean he's in the room right now?
It's a question to try to get you to see more clearly the difference between the imagined and the real. We can (generally speaking) visualise Santa, even though we know he's not real. The "self" is like this, too - but it can be easier to "get" that principle with a character that we already know isn't real. Does that make sense?
Can you see the difference between real and imagined?
But this one I can understand more. There are lots of differences between waking reality and imagined reality, at least on the gross level. It seems to be more subtle levels where the similarities are more pronounced. In terms of how I react emotionally they seem very similar. It's like I inhabit both with equal energy, reacting and responding, opening and closing. The imagined is real in that it's here in my mind, just as this room and computer are here in my mind. That's interesting to say, the room is here in my mind. I was talking to friend last night about how all we ever see is light, and we make it into things we can understand...
So here I see that you get the principle - at least I think so. Am I right?

Continuing....
There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what colour socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can have a think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what colour you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what colour they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of our dialogue together, it is going to be very important that you are clear about this difference. Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that. We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment to moment experience. We are only interested in your direct experience in the moment.

Does that make sense?

Keep going! Don't let resistance get in the way - it's all simple, really
xxx PK


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