Rumination Preventing Liberation

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imajimation
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Rumination Preventing Liberation

Postby imajimation » Mon Jan 27, 2020 2:36 pm

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I have experienced that "I AM" directly and various times, however, I struggle to undo the conditioning of the minds rumination and pathological thinking about reality that need so be dropped to leave forms and objects alone. This seemingly automatic process of mind ticks over, even during sleep state.

What are you looking for at LU?
Further guidance from experienced guides to help in leaving all false notions of a 'me' behind and to be as I am, prior to conditioning. I have experienced that "I AM" directly various times and can see that intellectually understand that everything is because I am but the mind doesn't stop and I wonder if it ever will.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
i'd expect to hear their personal experiences and what they would advise I do to based on their experiences and help that they have given other seekers of truth. I'd also imagine they'd have a wealth of literature to check up on that will also act as further pointers but I'm done reading, I understand it, just can't seem to apply the knowledge and shake the thoughts that hold "me" back.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I have always been suspicious of reality, so to speak and always questioned its nature, but as you go through life and experience hardships and it's traumas, ups and downs, the purpose of it all loses hold and it leaves a massive hole that nothing fills. I have read numerous books, "I AM THAT", "I AM", "Be As You Are" etc and understand but life dictates I often forget all that I learn, just as quickly I store it....

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
11

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JonathanR
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Re: Rumination Preventing Liberation

Postby JonathanR » Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:29 am

Hello Imagimation,

(Shall I use that name or something else?)

Welcome to Liberation Unleashed. Sorry for your longish wait but glad to meet you now.

I read your introduction with interest.
. I struggle to undo the conditioning of the minds rumination and pathological thinking about reality that need so be dropped to leave forms and objects alone. This seemingly automatic process of mind ticks over, even during sleep state.
We can look into this together if you like?

I agree that there are frequent thoughts but who or what would 'do' the dropping?
. Further guidance from experienced guides to help in leaving all false notions of a 'me' behind and to be as I am, prior to conditioning.
I'm very happy to work together with you on that as it is our main purpose 😊
. intellectually understand that everything is because I am but the mind doesn't stop and I wonder if it ever will.
It's a good question. We will look at it.

Please let me know if you are ready to start and we can get going?

Warm regards

Jon

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JonathanR
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Re: Rumination Preventing Liberation

Postby JonathanR » Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:17 pm

Hello Imagination

It's nearly a, week since I posted to you offering to guide.

It may be that you have not checked in to see if someone has answered your request or it may be that you do not feel like going ahead with this inquiry?

Either way I find that I can only guide a few people at once and that I set aside quite a bit of time for each person. I'd like to assist someone so could you please let me know within a couple of days whether or not you wish to proceed. If I do not hear from you I will answer someone else. Do not worry if that happens. You can always reapply to be guided and you would be answered again in due course.

Many thanks

Jon

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imajimation
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Re: Rumination Preventing Liberation

Postby imajimation » Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:20 pm

Hi Jon,

Many thanks for your reply and for your patience - I haven't been on in a while and busy with life.

I would be delighted if you would guide, if you are still available at the minute, of course - if not, I can wait.

Thanks in advance,
Imajimation

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JonathanR
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Re: Rumination Preventing Liberation

Postby JonathanR » Thu Feb 27, 2020 9:44 am

Thank you for your reply,

OK. Yes, I can still guide you.

I'm traveling for hours today but will try to write to you this evening.

Regards

Jon

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imajimation
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Re: Rumination Preventing Liberation

Postby imajimation » Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:30 pm

Thanks, Jon.

Much appreciated

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JonathanR
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Re: Rumination Preventing Liberation

Postby JonathanR » Fri Feb 28, 2020 12:45 am

Hello Imagimation

(may I call you 'Im' for short?)
. I have experienced that "I AM" directly and various times, however, I struggle to undo the conditioning of the minds rumination and pathological thinking about reality that need so be dropped to leave forms and objects alone. This seemingly automatic process of mind ticks over, even during sleep state
OK. Probably we can help a bit here, in the area of debunking a few unhelpful beliefs that feed the pathological thinking. But there is also a very important question here... Is it about preventing thoughts from appearing?

Is it possible to prevent thoughts from appearing? Try a little exercise right here and now. Notice thoughts. Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing? Try it. Is it possible to create a thought?

Regards
Jon

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imajimation
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Re: Rumination Preventing Liberation

Postby imajimation » Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:03 am

(may I call you 'Im' for short?)
Sure, that's no probs.
Is it about preventing thoughts from appearing?
That would be glorious. But, I know it isn't possible, I've tried - they just appear, and form the shape of words, feelings and images. Trying stirs them more, leading to the feeling of frustration, which has lead to the thought loop of trying to rid of unwanted thoughts. At times, I'm aware of their futility and at times of stress, I become them.
Is it possible to create a thought?
It seems like I can make a thought appear, but looking at it, the apparent continuity of thought is just another thought that I'm aware of and think I thought it... however, I may be wrong or over analyzing it, but it seems thought thoughts comes from both left and right side of my awareness, different types of thoughts. New thoughts from the left and old thoughts from the right - just a strange side point :)

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JonathanR
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Re: Rumination Preventing Liberation

Postby JonathanR » Sat Feb 29, 2020 12:56 am

Hi I'm.

Thanks for your reply.

Yes I agree, it does seem impossible to prevent thoughts from appearing
. It seems like I can make a thought appear, but looking at it, the apparent continuity of thought is just another thought that I'm aware of and think I thought it
And that's a very good observation too

. Where you see that thought plays a part
In creating an apparent continuity, do you feel that it could also have some role in the appearance of 'I'?

Could the thought 'I' be prevented from appearing?

All the best

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imajimation
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Re: Rumination Preventing Liberation

Postby imajimation » Mon Mar 02, 2020 12:27 pm

Where you see that thought plays a part
In creating an apparent continuity, do you feel that it could also have some role in the appearance of 'I'?

Could the thought 'I' be prevented from appearing?
It seems the "I" thought comes with every thought, I'm aware of the thought or action and attach the "I" to it once it has appeared or an action has taken place - the thought is claimed. I understand this intellectually with my mind but it never sinks in, I've never assimilated the knowledge.

The "I" thought could maybe be stopped from appearing as an attachment to thoughts, images and actions but not in the context of being or knowledge that "I" exist.

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JonathanR
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Re: Rumination Preventing Liberation

Postby JonathanR » Mon Mar 02, 2020 2:23 pm

Hi Im,
. I'm aware of the thought or action and attach the "I" to it once it has appeared or an action has taken place
OK, there is awareness of thoughts. That's, true. But take a look to see if there is a direct experience of someone 'attaching' I' to thoughts?

Is an entity found doing this? If what you've said is true surely it would be possible to see a 'self' or 'I' making the attachment?

What is the experience? . Take a look. Is there a direct experience of an entity making attachments to thoughts?

Or is this experience of attachment simply something that happens and then it seem that there is 'a person' that creates attachment due to thoughts that 'say' that this is what is going on?

Regards

Jon

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imajimation
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Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2020 2:34 pm

Re: Rumination Preventing Liberation

Postby imajimation » Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:42 am

But take a look to see if there is a direct experience of someone 'attaching' I' to thoughts?

Is an entity found doing this? If what you've said is true surely it would be possible to see a 'self' or 'I' making the attachment?

What is the experience? . Take a look. Is there a direct experience of an entity making attachments to thoughts?

Or is this experience of attachment simply something that happens and then it seem that there is 'a person' that creates attachment due to thoughts that 'say' that this is what is going on?
I've had to sit with this for a while. So there is the awareness of thoughts but that's all there really is. Everything else is just a thought, including the "i" thought or the thought of someone claiming to be "i" - the person is also a thought. This doesn't sink in though, there is a tension in my head around this question.

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JonathanR
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Re: Rumination Preventing Liberation

Postby JonathanR » Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:55 pm

. I've had to sit with this for a while. So there is the awareness of thoughts but that's all there really is. Everything else is just a thought, including the "i" thought or the thought of someone claiming to be "i" - the person is also a thought. This doesn't sink in though, there is a tension in my head around this question.
OK. This looking is good. But the tension in the head is interesting. Often sensations try to tell us something.

There is something that you can try. It may siunfmd odd but this can be remarkably helpful.

Notice this tension around your head when it's experienced. At that point address the sensation of tension. Thank it very much for showing its self. Give it a hug and ask it if it has any message to share?

See what happens and let me know?

Jon


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