Truly Desperately Lost

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Seamist
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Re: Truly Desperately Lost

Postby Seamist » Thu May 07, 2020 7:25 am

Dear Matthias,
I'm going to discuss where you're at with some of the other guides to see if they have anything helpful to add here. My sense of it is to wait, but I'd like to have others' opinions.
Hope that's ok
Much love
Sioned

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Re: Truly Desperately Lost

Postby Seamist » Thu May 07, 2020 4:26 pm

Hi again,
Another guide comments that it seems that all motivation is gone. And that "motivation" is another word for "self" - the stories by which you knew who you were and which directed your life. With that gone, it's an empty and directionless place - for now. Does that make sense?
Would you like to explore this further?

xx

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Re: Truly Desperately Lost

Postby Zeno » Fri May 08, 2020 12:31 am

With that gone, it's an empty and directionless place - for now. Does that make sense?
Oh wow. Yes that really makes sense.
In the lost post I was writing about my last couple of days. I did an old habit, that is escaping into dream worlds, this time sailing around the globe. All with YouTube videos, checking out boat prices, financing, boat types, etc. It is really a bit maniac, but the topic is quite arbitrary (never was into boats ever). So there is "motivation". But absolutely no motivation to work or do anything else. All activity is a big effort and costs huge amounts of energy. The only thing where I am still functioning quite good is being a father.
Then I had often those moments of dropping out of these thought worlds and finding me in front of a screen watching pictures. That felt calm and relaxed. Then again popping back into these thought dreamworlds. My body is craving for these feelings that "fill up space", it feels secure, like having a shell. Otherwise there is "something" missing. Or maybe it is more like not wanting to look, turning the back to something.
Or in other words, there are all these stories, which are just stories, based on habits. Some still bring motivation, there is a hook for some time, but it is still a story and I am aware of it regularly, although I also fall back into the story. I mean, being a father is really a strong storyline. Other stories do not hook at all anymore. What is missing, is a sense of mission. I feel like the best thing would be to just sit down and do nothing anymore and just relax.
But first that would hurt many people, for real. People are still there, they are not just a story, although I become more and more aware how much they are caught in their stories. And second, if doing nothing immediately comes the story about being lazy, procrastinating, needs to be useful, blablabla. Then after a while I realize it is just a story just thought and awareness sinks down, relaxing. Then thought starts .... and I cycle and cycle and cycle.
It is like in a boreout burnout, without the depression, as there is nobody who is depressed.
I had this habit of sometimes telling me aloud "It is too much, I cannot do it anymore". Still do that habitually in the last days, but as soon as I say it, it is more or less just funny, hollow. Nobody there, for whom it is "too much". Haha!
Reading that sounds really a bit crazy.
I also am forgetting a lot of things like appointments and other stuff. Started to write down many things.
Would you like to explore this further?
Oh yes please. I think that is a very good road to explore.

Thanks Sioned so much, and to the others too!

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Re: Truly Desperately Lost

Postby Zeno » Fri May 08, 2020 12:36 am

I think that is a very good road to explore
actually it is more a gut sense. it feels ... true(calm+fresh)

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Re: Truly Desperately Lost

Postby Seamist » Fri May 08, 2020 12:21 pm

Hi Matthias
This disorientation and loss of the old motivation is something that can happen. In time, the new perspective becomes the new normal. And life continues, despite the perspective having radically shifted.

Interesting, the habitual escape into dreamworlds. What is that? Where is it? Is it real?
My body is craving for these feelings that "fill up space", it feels secure, like having a shell. Otherwise there is "something" missing.[/quote] Is there fear here? Explore! Fear of what?
I feel like the best thing would be to just sit down and do nothing anymore and just relax
Sounds good! Why don't you do that? Again , is there fear? What of?
Nobody there, for whom it is "too much". Haha!
Exactly. As you know, is really is all just stories! What's your response to that?
Isn't the idea of being unmotivated just another story?
xx

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Re: Truly Desperately Lost

Postby Zeno » Sun May 10, 2020 12:53 am

Interesting, the habitual escape into dreamworlds. What is that? Where is it? Is it real?
It is a coping strategy and one of my major assets, as I am extremely good in this visualization of future, past, or totally fictitious imaginaries. It is all image-thought, but really absorbing. It is mesmerizing like TV or cinema can be.
The function was/is that I do not need to be in the presence with me. But more and more often I am aware that there is no me to be with. So no reason to go there. So why do it? I think it is because of the cycling. It is a reaction to stress and the cycling is stressful. So the flight reflex to go in imagined realities is now a bit in overdrive mode. Before it was contained, as major stories were still working. It was functional in a sense.
Is there fear here? Explore! Fear of what?
I am not sure. It is the sadness. The heart centre, that is hard to see.
The feeling+thought that comes up is one of failure. That I am a failure. I always was a failure. I did not life up to my promises. etc.
But then I am looking for this centre and there is just this slightly uncomfortable sensation of "knotty throat upper chest". Nothing else. The rest is just story (word-thought) that is increased by image-thought of alternative lifes (just brief glimpses). When story stops, I am left with this body-sensation which changes soon (awareness goes to different thing).
I cannot name a fear other than fear of death and sadness of time not used (which is another thought).

Ah one more fear. There are serious problems in my 20 year old bond with my partner. I considered leaving her, but there is a deep mistrust to the motivations for leaving and a very strong bond. I fear leaving her is a very big mistake. Like a cosmic mistake (I know that we are connected beyond this life). Then I know, staying will be costly as well. She does not see what I see. And there is some serious energy drain from the situation. She is depressed quite a lot. So I am in a double-bind, cannot really go, although in another sense I already left her (sadness arises), and staying will be draining and work but leaving might be even worse, as it might not change anything. I will be taking me with me in the end. In other words, this will not "solve" or so any of the things that "I" is projecting on it (mistrust).
[shift]
hmm. looking for that and it just drops away. It is all thought, the why's and don'ts, weighing this motive or that action, all thought, word-thought, images of future lifes. Intermixed with changing body sensations that are called upon by thoughts. Fingers tipping these words. Throat forming words. Mind imagining images. Fascinating and relaxing. Funny. Haha (laughing and smiling).
Isn't the idea of being unmotivated just another story?
True. Hmm ...
just looking to the body sensation that is coupled with the unmotivation. It is a bit sickness ... the urge for vomitlike contraction (the muscles throat upper chest). Interesting. It is ok.

Still not, hmm, satisfied, with the looking for sadness, fear, heart. .... ups, was looking for heart area and body and had some jolt like energy bursts. First one was quite intense. And now more. From inside out starting at heart area but quite back almost at the spine. Like a sneeze but without warning and not in nose area... Never had that... and some more...Really jumping in my seat. And yawning now, am suddenly really tired. Will go to bed.

Thanks as always for reading my long long posts Sioned. Much appreciated.

Matthias

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Re: Truly Desperately Lost

Postby Seamist » Sun May 10, 2020 9:27 am

Good Morning, Matthias,
Hope you had a good night's sleep.

There's a lot happening right now, isn't there? An escape into an old habit of day-dreaming, the releases of energy, and the disorientation. All things that can happen (I had a lot of physical experiences myself, kundalini energy shifting in the body). It's all good if you can hang in with it.

Some practical advice first, to help you navigate during this. Firstly, if it can possibly be avoided, don't make any major life decisions right now. Secondly, do as much physical exercise as is realistic to do (I'm assuming that you're in lockdown, too!) - I walked a lot, and some helpful advice I was given was to stamp my feet.

Be gentle and patient with yourself, too. It sounds like there is a lot going on in your home life. Remind yourself that , if nothing else, you are a good father! (there will be more, of course, But I'm mentioning this as it's something you've felt able to acknowledge yourself).

I'm not sure at this point whether to ask you another question or not. Maybe I'll wait to hear back from you before saying more.

Go gentle!
xx
Sioned

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Re: Truly Desperately Lost

Postby Seamist » Sun May 10, 2020 9:28 am

PS. All this may well be pretty tiring! Get more sleep if you can xx

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Re: Truly Desperately Lost

Postby Seamist » Sun May 10, 2020 9:40 am

Here's a couple of questions for you to look at:
1. In direct experience, can you find ‘reality’? If yes, what does this reality look like?

2. Is there doubt or unclarity left that the “self” is nothing other than a mental fabrication?

xx

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Re: Truly Desperately Lost

Postby Seamist » Sun May 10, 2020 4:53 pm

Hi Matthias,
On reflection, I think ignore that last message.

The other guide I mentioned to you recently had offered to continue working with you for the time being. I think this is a good idea, and I hope you will too.
He'll continue with you here shortly.

With my best wishes to you
Sioned

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Re: Truly Desperately Lost

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Mon May 11, 2020 12:00 am

Hi Matthias,

Saying hello, and look forward to catching up in the next few days.

With best wishes,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne

Author, The Faun's Apprentice - see on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fauns-Apprenti ... B01AR2B63U

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Re: Truly Desperately Lost

Postby Zeno » Mon May 11, 2020 12:14 am

Dear Sioned,

first of all, thanks so much for all your patience and guidance here and for all the time you spend with me going through this process. I had many important and wonderful insights. That is very very much appreciated.

Thanks and hug!
Matthias

Dear John,

thanks so much for jumping in here. I am totally open and trusting that it is a good idea, although I do not really know why that makes sense :). I am also not that aware, at which point in this process I am standing, but it does not matter that much either. Anyways, thanks to you as well and I am happy to go along with you!

Matthias

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Re: Truly Desperately Lost

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Mon May 11, 2020 12:51 am

Hi Matthias,
thanks so much for jumping in here. I am totally open and trusting that it is a good idea, although I do not really know why that makes sense :).

Me neither. :D

I am also not that aware, at which point in this process I am standing, but it does not matter that much either. Anyways, thanks to you as well and I am happy to go along with you!

Yes, doesn't matter at all. To be honest, I couldn't give a toss about the process, but I do care about you and these kind of inquiries can take on a life of their own - so sometimes it's good to just press pause for a bit.

I recognised the 'no motivation' thing, and so wanted to walk along with you for bit, if it was useful.

What's the weather like where you are?

With best wishes,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne

Author, The Faun's Apprentice - see on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fauns-Apprenti ... B01AR2B63U

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Re: Truly Desperately Lost

Postby Zeno » Mon May 11, 2020 8:05 pm

What's the weather like where you are?
Stormy, 40 knots wind, rolling sea with pretty admirable swell. Strangely I ride that effortlessly couple of times a day, if there is no identification with the usual perspective. I call that shifting. It also often happens here while writing. But the shifting is a bit unstable, to put it mildly.
Mostly I am in here, eye-level, looking out or down, having a body and haunted by word-thought and mostly image-thought and all the habitual thought-emotion triggers, that I trained so hard all my life to solidify and solder into my body. I am sure you still remember.
I am shifting in and out of that constantly (cycling). When shifted, it is a wide are awareness, thought is no different than sound or other senses. It iss first of all really fun and still miraculous. Having discovered that space is really wonderful. Also there is some intentionality possible to shift.
But as I said, soon enough I fall out again. Which is fine as well, if there would not be the downside:
The downside is that some of these habitual thought-emotion habits seem to become unstable as well. First it was quite a lot of fury. But now it is broadening to other areas. As an example, let's take work. Always was a bit a procrastinator, but had my ways to deal with it sufficiently to earn a PhD (quite a senseless achievement, but in the end it is a lot of work done). Now this balance, ... , balance is really not the right word anymore ... hmm ... I lost my motivation to do anything. That is in a sense fine, however, when I am back in normal, all the anxiety, shame, fear of failure and also public embarrassment kicks in. Then it again falls away each time I am drilling into that and just finding body sensations (knot in throat, tightness in breast etc. slightly weird, but not too bad). But nobody is there except thoughts. Then I forget about this perspective, awareness shifts back and "I" am (in) the thoughts and uuuuhhh ... not nice. Then cycle back and cycle, cycle, cycle.
Started first coping with usual strategies of small steps, organization, scheduling etc. But boy I am so, hmm, unwilling? Unmotivated?? ... hmm, in the end I just sit there and often do escapist activities (escapism is trained very well, feels stable and safe).
I found that relaxing is the best way to process currently (basically a do nothing approach), but so many things and situations do not allow for space and have their own demands and logic. Guess that was part of the fury in the beginning. But now I see much more often that the others are caught like me in this thought-based structure, and yeah ... in the end they do what they do and things are happening here as they are happening. It's only in the moments I am back to "normal" that it seems the cycling is unbearable. When shifted, cycling is not a problem either. Argh. Seems quite unlogical all.

Thanks for coming here John, I realized that you are a long time guide when looking at your profile (instantly decided not to look further).

Matthias

p.s. As you surely noticed, I am writing quite a lot. It is a process for me and helps. Most of the times, I am sitting here and watch my fingers writing (still funny to watch that. Who is doing that?). If you want to read less I can distill the results in much less text and put it upfront.

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Re: Truly Desperately Lost

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Mon May 11, 2020 10:21 pm

Hi Matthias,

Thank you for the detailed weather report. :) Sunny spells and scattered showers over here. :D

Just to take a step back and broaden out the inquiry approach a bit, we're taking things that we thought we knew - self, others, world - and treating them afresh, as if they were somewhat a mystery.

In meeting life this way, we have this reflexive instinct of seeing how we're seeing.

And you're developing this capability to notice the 'shifting' between 'Matthias' the person, and a more natural intelligent being that has no name, nor needs one, but will use one when convenient. I'm 'John', as you know. :)

So, let's extend our inquiry a little, to the other people in your life, your partner, children.

In the first instance, the inquiry is this - when your partner speaks, your job is to listen 100% without any thought of response, or thinking about what was said. This other being is a being to be approached as an utter mystery and as such, given the full respect the unknown deserves.

It is a reflection of a self inquiry - same inquiry, different direction.

A bit strange I know - but an adventure.

I look forward to hearing of any discoveries along the way.

With my very best wishes,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne

Author, The Faun's Apprentice - see on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fauns-Apprenti ... B01AR2B63U


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