Truly Desperately Lost

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Zeno
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Re: Truly Desperately Lost

Postby Zeno » Mon Apr 20, 2020 5:00 pm

Thanks Sioned,


Code: Select all

What are they currently? check them out and let me know Is there a fear of losing something?
Result: I experience profound sadness. Fear of separation, loneliness, loss of love. That is where I am stuck. That also makes everything else quite pale and flat(work). And my hidden expectation was that it will disappear instantaneously.

I am not sure about expectations. It feels like that I am standing in front of the house I built (my life), and that
a) I do not like what I see. So there was an expectation that only if I see it differently, it will miraculously become different. There is a feeling of profound sadness associated with it. But as this is all me-centered, it is more like a self pitty sadness. As soon as awareness broadens the sadness is less intense but still there.
b) I want to turn away from this house. So there is an expectation that only if I go somewhere else, then everything will be fine (become a monk, one year world travel, sexual encounters ... the usual midlife crisis stuff). The feeling of profound sadness then is more in conection with the knowledge, that this is grasping for a solution/salvation is an illusion.
c) there is this urge to make my house a big 40 Million$ palace with cinema, swimming pool etc. I definitely earned to have such a house, and please it should turn into a villa without me doing anything for it myself. When it does not happen by itself (damn it really), I despair immediately and give up (sadness in form of pure self-pitty. Yeah it is gross!). Better to not go outside and take a look at that shit, it will never become a villa.

So there is a profound sadness about the whole situation, not only the house, but the whole existential situation of "ME". No idea and connection that would sufficiently explain that in my biography (psychologically). Yes there is this sadness as my father died early and my parents divorced and I missed my father etc. But this sadness is deeper.

[though and went into direct experience for some time]

Yeah. It is a sadness about the fact that nothing will stay, all things change a deep sadness about death. It is not fear of death, but sadness about it. However this sadness is only there, if I am seeing the world from "me". It is also that almost all motivation is gone. Why do anything? It is all in vain!

So the expectation is that somehow this feeling will disappear miraculously. Instead what I found is that it kind of disappears when shifted, as it is a thought driven or thought-triggered emotion.

[went into direct experience for some time]

Hmm. I sensed another layer. There is a fear of loosing love and connectedness. Hard to explain, but that clinging to the emotion-plus-thought is driven by a fear of being separated, alone, lost. Although I already experienced emotion-withought-thought, it did not overcome this fear yet. So I cling to the connection of thought-triggered-emotion as it is safe ground, no danger to become separated. I can make me feel myself as safe ground. The knowledge that there is really no thing to fear is not integrated, not trusted. And that although I already have the experience that sadness and loss can actually be "positive" in direct experience. They are another facet of the movement going on moment by moment that is so miraculous and astounding.

Yeah rereading that makes sense!

Code: Select all

Raising Hand Exercise
No controller to be found. No decision maker. It is really weird.
The controller only comes in in with thought.
"Controlling" happens, but without a controller.
The decision can be primed so it is predictable which hand raises. But then the question of course becomes: who does the priming? Again there is no primer found.
It all just happens.
And actually I could relax, but somehow I am still stressed with it.

Thanks so much Sioned for your patience and time!

Matthias

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Seamist
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Re: Truly Desperately Lost

Postby Seamist » Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:59 am

Hi Matthias
Well explored. I had a lot of fear myself in my own process - but once everything "clicked" - it vanished! Maybe it's something some of us have to go through. The ego clinging on. Just acknowledge it and let it be there. And do the exercises from a relaxed state.

Here's a few questions to explore:
Where is the self that is judging your life? What/who is judging? Can you find it?
Where is the sadness? the fear? Explore them in the body.
Can the Expector be found?

Raising Hand Exercise
No controller to be found. No decision maker. It is really weird.
The controller only comes in in with thought.
"Controlling" happens, but without a controller.
The decision can be primed so it is predictable which hand raises. But then the question of course becomes: who does the priming? Again there is no primer found.
It all just happens.
And actually I could relax, but somehow I am still stressed with it.
So no Controller can be found - good. What about the Stressor?

xx

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Zeno
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Re: Truly Desperately Lost

Postby Zeno » Thu Apr 23, 2020 1:44 pm

Dear Seonid,

feeling better today. I had a little bit of clarity regarding some old patterns from childhood and adolescence. I guess I am often caught in loss of heart moments (since quite a while). Then I am either judging myself, I fall into inactivity, sometimes I also agressively am harsh and want to break free. What I discovered today and yesterday, was that I am feeling this, and to lean a bit into it, but with less of the usual storylines. The emotion, especially that profound sadness is there, but when the usual thought-story drops, the moment and the experience looses its sharpness and the urge to fall into habitual patterns is eased. A bit.
Sometimes it also becomes very relaxed, then the thinking "stopped". I guess it is not so much that thought stopped, but that the patterned looping of thought-emotion stopped.
Where is the self that is judging your life? What/who is judging? Can you find it?
It is only a thought. Each judgement is a thought.
Where is the sadness? the fear? Explore them in the body.
The sadness is sitting in the heart. Sometimes it feels like that it is not only my own sadness, but more. Cannot explain it. It is a feeling of being overwhelmed by it, holding ground, like a sea of sadness and misery, an ocean. There are these moments, when I let down my guard, it swells up. And it is coming in from outside somehow (not only my sadness?). Maybe it is only because of this overwhelming characteristic that it feels like coming from outside. The fear is, It will wash me away, so I keep up the guard.
It is not easy to sit with that, without either closing down or ignoring it, or just fall into other activity to not feel that. The "comes from others" notion also comes, as the sadness is so existential, really touches the core, shakes the foundations. It does not seem to be "rationally" explainable, by loss, fear of death etc. It is a sadness about how this all is. And that it might be the same for all of us?

[shift]
was sitting with this swelling sadness for a bit. It swells up and down. The thoughts say, that it is dangerous and I need to control it, but actually there is no controller outside of thought, it just swells up and down. It does not seem to be overwhelming. But I am not sure how much I let the sadness run free, and control really dropped. I will explore that more.
Can the Expector be found?
The Expector is a good story about my habitual patterning. I could go on and on about parents, existential traumas etc. that can "explain" these expectations. And I do not want to diminish this explanation, as it gives one clarity. However in practise, it is just a thought line, a story. One story of those, that form the me-story. Together with habitual patterns it is the expector. E.g. avoiding work and procrastinate can be packaged in a story about parents and their expectations, feelings of unworthiness etc. The pattern is to be either stubborn (I do not need do that) or lazy (unworthy laziness), trained and ingrained as a short term relief strategy, to avoid just being with that old feeling-pattern. Crazy. What do we do with us all the time?
What about the Stressor?
Yeah that guy. It is me, ME, myself, my Self I guess. I remember talking about doubling and trippling like in a mirror cabinet, as if I am watching myself with my self talking about me etc..
Actually it is all thoughts. The Stressor is a thought story line a "subpersonality" that is "thought-over" this constricted body sensation (upper breast, shoulder, neck, throat, tingling legs).
Applying the same "method" as above: beeing with the body sensation (unpleasant) and watching the thought. Doing it they are experienced as separate, therefore they loose this looping characteristic. The body relaxes after a while (takes 1-2 minutes). Realization of relaxation is via a body sensation, that is not realized before (mouth relaxes). Thought pattern keeps on patterning or stops for brief moments. But the body-feeling-emotion- thought cycle of stressing is loosened and eased.

Result: Thinking
And actually I could relax
is not the trick, but bringing awareness to these patterns of thought-emotion-body reaction. Doing that "automatically" frees them by themselves. Spontaneous easing by looking, so to say.

Fascinating to actually experience that.

Thanks Sioned

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Re: Truly Desperately Lost

Postby Seamist » Thu Apr 23, 2020 3:04 pm

Dear Matthias
Some strong looking there, honest and brave. Nothing I need to add or comment on - it's happening anyway.

Do you want another exercise at this point or would you rather wait and be with what is unfolding? My inclination is to the latter, but it's up to you.
xx

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Re: Truly Desperately Lost

Postby Zeno » Sun Apr 26, 2020 11:36 pm

Dear Sioned,

it has been three days. The moments of being aware are more often, but I hit a ceiling a bit. I guess really it is now the time to expand daily practice. Formal meditation might be a way to go, but I discovered that mundane tasks are maybe even a better opportunity.
I am reminding to shift (or just shifting) frequently enough so that it is becomes self-repetitive. Stutteringly though. Like an old car engine that makes its first rounds of ignitions on the way to run smoothly.
Family and old friends still make me shrink back a lot, which also makes me irritable, as I notice the effect. Getting then angry as I already realize the unfolding of irritation, without being able to unhook and without this automatic-dissolution.

So a lot back and forth still.

The repeating shifting experiences are very interesting, as I am just allowing a lot of things unfolding and then they kind of selfdisolve. Being with boredom, anger, arousal, but also fun or pleasure. Without interference, it comes and it goes and I go on. Very helpful for some old patterns. But hard work at times.

I wonder where I will go from here?
It is definitely about stabilization. That would be welcome, for sure. But somehow I also think that I took a certain step and will not again forget about it, as has happened before. The dominance of thought has a crack, so to say. So stabilization as I said requires some more effort, I kind of hit a ceiling and a daily practice might be giving some push to stabilize more.
Another inclination is to center on the heart area more. I realized that many these emotion-pattern-thought-things get sticky-patchy yeah even dark at/in that area. When sometimes - rarely - the body image drops away, I can really become my great foot, my fingertip or my nose. But there is a strange hurdle in centering into the heart complexion. I slip off, or avoid it? It has to do with the sadness thing, but there is more.
Another issue is that although shifted there is even more. The shift often starts when looking back to who is looking, inquiring, stressing, expecting choosing etc. But then there seems to be two ... hmm ... modes? One is to just watch or marvel. The other Is more inquisitive. Still testing out. It is like being on unicycle or walking on sticks. To inquire there are brief thoughts that make awareness to look back on ... awaring/awareness/awarer/itself. Not so sure. But after the first shift perplexing, there is this other perplexing. But a thought is needed briefly to mount the unicycle so to say. (or better trying to mount, I am falling of every time)
..
reading that is strange. Not sure if it is understandable, what I mean. Anyways. Should we move on? In a sense the exercises help, on the other hand there is this unfolding of what I call shifting going on and I am not sure if another exercise will change much, as I am exercising each day with various things.
What is your suggestion at this point?

Result: The inclination here is to rather go further out into uncharted terrain.

Matthias

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Re: Truly Desperately Lost

Postby Seamist » Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:40 am

Ask your heart what you should do
xx

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Re: Truly Desperately Lost

Postby Seamist » Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:43 am

What does it say?

And have an explore with this one:

Go out into nature and spend some time watching the movement of the whole. See how clouds move, trees swing, leaves wiggle, grass moves, insects, birds - all move all the time.

Then move focus to sensations and see how they too are in constant motion, thoughts come and go, sounds, colours, sensations come and go.

Notice that everything is part of one movement.

Then close your eyes and see if there is a line between you and out there, between you and life itself. If yes, where is the boundary?
Is there an inside and an outside of Life?
Is there something which is not included in the movement of the whole?
Is there a witness that is watching life happening from a distance?
Is witnessing part of the one movement too?
Is there anything which is not just happening?

Go out, come back and tell me what you found.

xx

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Re: Truly Desperately Lost

Postby Seamist » Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:58 am

how are you doing, Matthias?

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Zeno
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Re: Truly Desperately Lost

Postby Zeno » Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:36 pm

Dear Sioned,

am still processing. Fallen back into bad habits as rarely since years (not enough sleep, overdone food, sex, alcohol in last 4 days) and then not fallen back and moments of clarity. Best description is a rapid cycling through patterns which usually takes days, weeks or even months. Will report back tomorrow or Saturday.

Matthias

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Re: Truly Desperately Lost

Postby Seamist » Fri May 01, 2020 8:17 am

Ok xx

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Re: Truly Desperately Lost

Postby Seamist » Fri May 01, 2020 1:13 pm

Keep things soft and gentle. Don't push
xx

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Zeno
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Re: Truly Desperately Lost

Postby Zeno » Sun May 03, 2020 10:15 pm

Dear Sioned,

I sense that I am getting closer to a tipping point. Could not sleep a lot the last days.
As often in these situations, I try escapist moves. I escaped into dreaming and obsessively reading and investigating other lifestyles (this time world round sailing ... just need to buy a boat ... which one .. repairs .. financing etc. only to find myself having trouble to stand up in the morning - maybe that is the first step in going on global travel, duh). Then sensing trapped in the current situation and feeling overwhelmed - then repeat cycle
While doing that, I would say I was able to stay with the feeling and emotion and images that "make" me do that. No pusher there. Just thought. That made me relax and to see thought more clearly than usual (sailing images mostly about how wonderful that must be). That made me relax more and actually sort the thoughts much better. Structure them and not feeling trapped that much.

I did not try to listen to my heart yet directly. I tried to do the exercise but did not find time. haha. There is a resistance to doing that in the moment. A fear of finding out that all is wrong, or so. Or that I need to do something, but I do not know what? It is strange, but the intensity of the strangeness is intensified and I am much more aware of that so that there is some relaxation.

Maybe I will write here more often. It is very useful for me and having the impression that somebody is there with me is really really important and a great relief. Maybe I did not write this week more often, as I thought there is not much "progress" and nothing worth to write down. Maybe I should just write a bit everyday, not that much. I will do the exercise tomorrow.

Quite confused and hiding in a shell,
Matthias

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Re: Truly Desperately Lost

Postby Seamist » Mon May 04, 2020 8:49 am

Definitely, stay in touch xx

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Zeno
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Re: Truly Desperately Lost

Postby Zeno » Thu May 07, 2020 12:03 am

Dear Sioned,

last post seems to have been lost. Not sure what happened with it.
Was kind of mixed. As it is now.

I am constantly switching between perspectives from deep down and totally unmotivated, to just seeing there watching thought and wondering and relaxing. It is very unstable and affects me, my family and work. I am not seeing able to do anything at work, constantly procrastinating.

Did not do the exercise yet. Tried to stay with the feeling of resisting. There is nothing found that resist, but there is this thought stream of doing other things, a craving to avoid being just here and escape into daydream or YouTube dream. I even realize the dream state often, but cannot help it. It is quite disappointing, and then looking at the disappointment there is nowhere anything that can be disappointed, but just a thought. Still I seem to be cycling endlessly through seeing aware, being lost, seeing in the flow, getting lost, seeing aware of lost state, being aware etc... cannot even be depressed, because there if looking who is depressed m there is no depressed centra found, it is just another thought. It is really harsh and strange. A bit like in overdrive mode, it keeps getting faster and faster. I think I am approaching a tipping point, but not there yet. Maybe I just hope for tipping point. Who hopes, ahhh, just another thought. But the visceral feeling is so imminent of being unsatisfied ... but who is unsatisfied, again, no centre found just body sensations and thought etc. etc. etc.

Started to meditate in the veneering again and sit silently with this crazy cycling.

Matthias

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Zeno
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Re: Truly Desperately Lost

Postby Zeno » Thu May 07, 2020 12:04 am

oh just replace seeing with being most of the times in the post.


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