Stillness

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Colette01
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Re: Stillness

Postby Colette01 » Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:22 am

Hi Faithy,
Yes. That's accurate. Thoughts continue to be egocentric even though it's been recognised that in reality there is no I.
'I' cannot be found in AE as you have seen, but thought continues to reference ‘I’ AS IF it existed. How will you square this circle yourself?
It will be useful on an ongoing basis to work with and inquire into thoughts as they arise, to not take them at face value and ask , whatever their content, are they ever anything more than thoughts? You can use the approach I set out earlier:
Go back to the sentence. Is there a self that you can find in AE that is watching. Be really clear. Can you find an ‘I’. Then when you’re absolutely clear go back to the question ‘I still dont know who exactly is watching’ and answer it in your own words. Repeat the thought question ‘I still dont know who exactly is watching’ and answer it again. Keep answering the same question until its absolutely clear - that the question is a thought and the answer is in AE. Thoughts like this will continue to arise, but it is a thought and the truth is in the seeing not the thinking or thought question.
Seeing cannot be turned off. There is no chooser seen to choose anything.
As there is only awareness and it can't be chosen or not chosen there is nothing else to choose.
OK.That sounds clear. If a thought arises that says, 'hang on a minute, who is choosing what to do then', you know what to do :)

Let's check this out together:

Looking is a nice simple thing - there is no need to over-complicate it.

Just look now...a thought can be found, but can a thinker of thought be found?
Can an “I” be found in thought itself?

Sound can be found, but can a hearer of sounds be found?
Can an “I” be found in sound itself?

Colour can be found, but can a see-er of colour be found?
Can an “I” be found in colour itself?

Sensation can be found, but can a feeler of sensation be found?
Can an “I” be found in sensation itself?

Smell can be found, but can a smeller of smell be found?
Can an “I” be found in smell itself?

Taste can be found, but can a taster of taste be found?
Can an “I” be found in taste itself?

Experience can be found, but can an experiencer of experience be found?
It's as simple as that. Just look and see what is actually present - and what is only imaginary.


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Faithy
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Re: Stillness

Postby Faithy » Fri Apr 17, 2020 9:32 am

Hi Colette,
Thanks for your guidance.

A subtle shift has happened and life is being experienced from a more accepting perspective more of the time over the last few days. Still just brief periods but there is more awareness that content of thought is just that and not reality. There is more spaciousness.

I is found in contents of thought OFTEN but I am not thoughts.
Sensations are felt but no one is feeling them. I am not sensations.
Smells are experienced but no one is smelling and thoughts arise and label and judge but no one thinks them. I am not smell.
Sounds are heard but no one is hearing and I am not sounds.
Colours are seen but there is no seer and I am not colour.
Tastes are experienced but no one experiences them and I am not flavours.
Experience is simply experienced purely and then content of thoughts label, judge, create stories etc

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Colette01
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Re: Stillness

Postby Colette01 » Sat Apr 18, 2020 8:47 am

A very good morning to you Faithy,

thank you for your response it feels clear and confident. Yes, content of thought is just that, content of thought and not reality.
Colours are seen but there is no seer and I am not colour. Sensations are felt but no one is feeling them. I am not sensation
So experience continues to roll on without a central reference point, without 'I'?
'I am not colours or sounds or thoughts'

Is there within AE a self anywhere to be found?
Always answering from AE.If the answer is 'no', sit with that. Is that clear?

Let's continue to dust the corners

Exploring the Body

Sit with eyes closed for about 15 minutes.
Paying attention only to the pure sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images:

Can it be known how tall the body is?
Does the body have a weight or volume?
In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?
Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

Is there an inside or an outside?
If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly?
If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?
What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?


Look very carefully, especially with the last question. Take your time, don’t rush. You can look several times during the day while doing other things (like washing hands, showering, having a short break from work, walking, etc) before replying.

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Faithy
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Re: Stillness

Postby Faithy » Mon Apr 20, 2020 11:49 am

Hi Colette,

Sorry for the delay in replying. I had a very busy work weekend.
I'd like to sit with your past post for a bit longer before replying to do it justice.

Hoping you and those you love are remaining well which seems like a ridiculous sentiment really when we both know that we are all in this together whether our personal family is involved or not.

I'm so grateful to you for your guidance.

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Faithy
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Re: Stillness

Postby Faithy » Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:40 am

Hi Colette,
Is there within AE a self anywhere to be found?
No
Can it be known how tall the body is?
Does the body have a weight or volume?
In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?
No. Height, weight is concepts in content of thoughts

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?
Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?
No
Is there an inside or an outside?
If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly?
If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?
No inside or outside in AE just sensations, sounds, colours, tastes, smells experienced

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?
What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?
The word body refers to a field of experience.
The AE is taste, smell, sensations, colours and sounds.

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Faithy
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Re: Stillness

Postby Faithy » Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:41 am

and thoughts.
AE of the body includes thoughts of course.

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Colette01
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Re: Stillness

Postby Colette01 » Tue Apr 21, 2020 7:21 pm

Hi Faithy,

so, no self to be found, no height, weight, volume, shape or form can be found or boundary separating one thing from another, no inside or outside. Great.
What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?
What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

Yes, the actual experience of the body is thought. Thought points sensations and labels it 'body'. Thought points to colour and labels it body....so the AE of the body = thought.

Here is another body exercise - please follow each step, don't leave out any. Take your time. Don't move to the next step until the previous one is clearly seen. Repeat the exercise several times.

Stand in front of a bigger mirror.

(1) First, close the eyes and feel the sensations labelled ‘body’.

(2) Then open the eyes and look into the mirror while still paying attention to the sensations.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations and the image in the mirror? Or just thoughts (and/or mental images) suggest that there is?
(3) While still paying attention to the sensations move one hand and observe the movement from the mirror.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and image of movement in the mirror?

(4) Now do the same movement with the hand, but this time look at the hand directly, not from the mirror.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and the image ‘of movement’?
Or only thoughts suggest it?


(5) Now, pay attention only to the image in the mirror.

Does the image by itself suggest in any way that is ‘you’ or ‘your body’? Does the image itself suggest in any way that it is a ‘body’ at all? Or are there only colours and shapes?

(6) Where the mirror ends, some parts of the body (probably legs) cannot be seen.

Just by the image in the mirror, is there any ‘knowledge’ that there must be legs, or only thoughts and mental images suggest so?

(7) Now turn away from the mirror and look forward (don’t look directly to any body parts).

Is there a ‘body’ anywhere when all thoughts and images are ignored, or are there only sensations


(8) Start to walk slowly.

Is there a ‘body walking’, or are there only sensations?
Is there actual experience of ‘walking’ at all?
Or just THOUGHTS ABOUT ‘walking’?
Can such a thing as ‘body’ be found OR just THOUGHTS ABOUT a ‘body’?
Can such a thing as ‘walking’ be found?


(9) Are the sensations localized in space, like ‘going through the room’; OR is there only an image that is labelled ‘room’ and appearing sensations without any location?

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Faithy
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Re: Stillness

Postby Faithy » Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:30 pm

Hi Colette,
Stand in front of a bigger mirror.
(1) First, close the eyes and feel the sensations labelled ‘body’.
(2) Then open the eyes and look into the mirror while still paying attention to the sensations.
Is there any connection between the felt sensations and the image in the mirror? Or just thoughts (and/or mental images) suggest that there is?
There is no connection between the felt sensations and the image in the mirror
3. Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and image of movement in the mirror?
None
4) Now do the same movement with the hand, but this time look at the hand directly, not from the mirror.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and the image ‘of movement’?
Or only thoughts suggest it?
No connection other than content of thought.
(5) Now, pay attention only to the image in the mirror.

Does the image by itself suggest in any way that is ‘you’ or ‘your body’? Does the image itself suggest in any way that it is a ‘body’ at all? Or are there only colours and shapes?
No. The image doesn't suggest that it's me only content of thought in a very detached way.
The image also doesn't suggest a body although labelling is very quick.
(6) Where the mirror ends, some parts of the body (probably legs) cannot be seen.
Just by the image in the mirror, is there any ‘knowledge’ that there must be legs, or only thoughts and mental images suggest so?
No there is no knowledge other than the content of thought that suggests there legs.
(7) Now turn away from the mirror and look forward (don’t look directly to any body parts).
Is there a ‘body’ anywhere when all thoughts and images are ignored, or are there only sensations

There is no body only sensations except in thoughts.
(8) Start to walk slowly.

Is there a ‘body walking’, or are there only sensations?
Is there actual experience of ‘walking’ at all?
Or just THOUGHTS ABOUT ‘walking’?
Can such a thing as ‘body’ be found OR just THOUGHTS ABOUT a ‘body’?
Can such a thing as ‘walking’ be found?
There is no body walking except in thoughts only sensations in AE.
In AE there is no experience of walking only sensations.
Both body and walking are found in thoughts not AE.
(9) Are the sensations localized in space, like ‘going through the room’; OR is there only an image that is labelled ‘room’ and appearing sensations without any location?
Sensations appear without any localisation. Thoughts contain the concept of room.

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Colette01
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Re: Stillness

Postby Colette01 » Thu Apr 23, 2020 2:59 pm

Hi Faithy,

thank you for your clear answers.

The next exercise is also good for seeing through the body and links to the next topic.

Look into the mirror throughout the day. Body image appears... notice that all that's really there are some colours, and a thought-story saying 'these colours are my body'

When you return to the mirror each time, consider whether these 'body colours' have ever appeared before.

Has this body image + story ever appeared before - or is this the only time you have ever been aware of these exact colours and this exact story about the body?

Can you find any previous appearances of the body? Where are they? If not how can it be known that the body has appeared before?

Is the appearance just appearing 'now' with only a thought-story claiming you've seen this body before?


Do that for today and report back what you find

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Faithy
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Re: Stillness

Postby Faithy » Sat Apr 25, 2020 11:54 am

Hi Colette
Has this body image + story ever appeared before - or is this the only time you have ever been aware of these exact colours and this exact story about the body?
This is the only time I have ever been aware of these exact colours and exact story about the body.
Any other appearances are memories therefore content of thought.
Can you find any previous appearances of the body? Where are they? If not how can it be known that the body has appeared before?
In AE there are no other appearances of the body to be found.
Is the appearance just appearing 'now' with only a thought-story claiming you've seen this body before?
Yes exactly.

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Colette01
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Re: Stillness

Postby Colette01 » Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:00 am

Hi Faithy,

all looking good :-)

There is a general assumption that there is linear time that started (if started at all) somewhere very far in the past and advances to the distant future. The present moment (now) is considered to be a very small fragment of time, or an event that is moving forward on this linear time, coming from the past and advancing to the future.

But is there an experience that the ’now’ is moving along the line of time?
Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next?
Any actual experience of one event following another?


How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?

Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began?
Can you find a point where it will end?

How long does the ‘now’ last?

Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?

When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?

What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?

So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?


Looking forward to hearing your answers

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Faithy
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Re: Stillness

Postby Faithy » Mon Apr 27, 2020 2:28 am

Hi Colette,

Well this is all very interesting. What on earth has all the rushing been about? (LOL)
But is there an experience that the ’now’ is moving along the line of time?
Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next?
Any actual experience of one event following another?
There is no AE that now is moving along the line of time.
There is no AE of one moment giving way to the next.
There is no AE of one event following another.
Linear time is only present in the content of thoughts.
AE is experienced in the present.
How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?
The present moment is not actually moving. It just is.
Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began?
Can you find a point where it will end?
No. Beginning and end are concepts in the content of thought.
How long does the ‘now’ last?
Good question but there is no answer outside content of thoughts.
Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?
In the content of thoughts. No where in reality.
When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?
The now only becomes the past in the content of thoughts.
What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?
The past doesn't exist in AE. Only in the content of thoughts.
So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?
There is no AE of time only thoughts about time.

So that's all very interesting!!!

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Colette01
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Re: Stillness

Postby Colette01 » Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:10 am

Thanks Faithy,

yes it is interesting! How do you feel when you see that there is no linear time?

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Faithy
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Re: Stillness

Postby Faithy » Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:07 am

Hi Colette,

I don't quite know how to answer that question at the moment. Which "you" is it that you ask about? I don't have a strong reaction or need to negate it. Basically I guess I just feel detached from life a bit. There is an underlying feeling of transition perhaps like the old concepts have been seen to be false and the new revelations are not yet integrated so the seeing of time as just contents of thought will take a while to be experienced as a daily knowing. I have know idea how that will unfold so I'll try not to dwell in thoughts and just see what unfolds. I hope that makes sense.

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Colette01
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Re: Stillness

Postby Colette01 » Wed Apr 29, 2020 6:44 am

Hi Faithy,

With regard to your previous post:

What is there to be detached from life? What is detached.
What could there be that is separate still?
Where is the corridor where we wait for pennies to drop? The new revelations dont take time....seeing is right now, always and only now. It only takes a moment to see that time is an idea, and you either see it or you dont and I guess, when you do, there is something to say about that!


When we see that there is no self, no body, no linear time, when we really begin to see how much of what we've taken for granted is actually nothing more than thought, there is generally an emotional response. It's not intellectual...its more like OMG or Wow or No Way! When what we've believed for so long falls away there is often fear, resistance, amazement, something!

Does the experience of no self right now remain intellectual? Be totally honest with yourself. Is there a hope that you can grasp this mentally but not have things change?

How is life now compared to when you first started looking?
What has changed and what hasn't?
What is the main difference from before? Is seeking still happening?


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