Stillness

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Colette01
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Re: Stillness

Postby Colette01 » Fri Feb 28, 2020 8:04 am

Hi Faithy,

I'm working away this week and unsure of the reliability of the internet so forgive me if I'm a little slower to reply but please post as usual, best wishes Colette

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Faithy
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Re: Stillness

Postby Faithy » Sun Mar 01, 2020 8:55 am

Hi Colette,

Thank you for letting me know about your trip. No worries if there is limited internet. I am deeply grateful for the time you give to this process. I think the process is a little stuck here. There has been a lot of distracting life issues to deal with but I've also spent quite a bit of time trying to just let go into awareness and looking. I've been delaying sending this email in case a shift happened but not yet.
What creates the illusion that thought attempts to control attention?
What creates the illusion that thought has agency i.e. can decide to do something like attempt to control attention.
Thought doesn't attempt to control awareness. I am clear about that. However attention can be guided like in a mindfulness meditation eg. Notice sensations in the feet, the hands, the face etc. Awareness shifts as directed even though the body parts are constructs.
So, what happened after the fullstop? What created 'deeper' and 'layers'? Can you see how thinking muddies the water?
Yes. I can see that trying to understand it through thinking about it muddies the waters. The old pattern of needing to understand and think it thorough logically is still strong.
Try sitting and absorbing:

'There is no 'me'. No one to choose. Just awareness unfolding'

Each time there is awareness of 'no one choosing', 'just awareness unfolding', pause, allow the full stop ...how does 'no one choosing' land? Let me know
There are no big emotions sensed with it.

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Colette01
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Re: Stillness

Postby Colette01 » Mon Mar 02, 2020 9:35 pm

Hi Faithy,
What creates the illusion that thought attempts to control attention? What creates the illusion that thought has agency i.e. can decide to do something like attempt to control attention?
Thought doesn't attempt to control awareness. I am clear about that
That's right thought cannot attempt or in fact control anything. Thought creates the illusion of control, the illusion of agency, and the illusion that there is someone that can shift and direct and control awareness. In a previous post we explored focus and you said that focus moves by itself, and now...
However attention can be guided like in a mindfulness meditation eg. Notice sensations in the feet, the hands, the face etc. Awareness shifts as directed even though the body parts are constructs.
Something must be guiding and directing attention/focus? Lets play with this....lets find the director. I know it can sometimes be difficult to keep going back...but we have time...relax...let this be easy...lets be patient

sit quietly and notice any sounds and sensations arising. When a car passes or there is a twinge in the bones of the hand, look very closely, is attention directed to sound or sensation? Or is sensation simply and instantly experienced? Do this as many times as you like, then take a break then do it again...if it gets tight, take a break, go back and look again.

When you say you are clear, does this clarity and confidence come from looking and then seeing 'ah, there is thought content which suggests there is such a thing as control, but actually in AE, there isnt anything other than thought/content?' In this case its not so much that thought doesn't attempt to do anything, it cannot do anything because thought has no will or agency. There are two ways to approach these statements. You can either say yes, that sounds about right or you can go and check it out in experience. When illusion is seen through there is certainty.

I can understand the habit of working with this in the usual way through thinking BUT it wont work. Sometimes that takes a while to really sink in. Trying to think our way to clarity is like trying to write with a kipper...its just the wrong tool for the job. There has to come a point when we see that thinking is actually very limited and we begin to look.

You can spot thinking I'm sure? It's no more significant than the sound of a car passing or the taste of tea, let it come and go like and continue to look. But let's be clear - thinking cannot help you here.

Let me know what you're feeling about this Faithy

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Faithy
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Re: Stillness

Postby Faithy » Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:13 am

Hi Colette,
Thank you for your gentleness and patience.
sit quietly and notice any sounds and sensations arising. When a car passes or there is a twinge in the bones of the hand, look very closely, is attention directed to sound or sensation? Or is sensation simply and instantly experienced? Do this as many times as you like, then take a break then do it again...if it gets tight, take a break, go back and look again.
That's it. I see it immediately. It is so obvious now. Sensation and sound arise and are experienced and thought arises too. The content of thought clamours for attention and muddies the waters!
You can spot thinking I'm sure? It's no more significant than the sound of a car passing or the taste of tea, let it come and go like and continue to look. But let's be clear - thinking cannot help you here.

Let me know what you're feeling about this Faithy.
Seeing this has allowed a bit more space to creep into daily experience. Subtle but real.

Thank you!

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Colette01
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Re: Stillness

Postby Colette01 » Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:23 am

Hello Faithy,
Sit quietly and notice any sounds and sensations arising. When a car passes or there is a twinge in the bones of the hand, look very closely, is attention directed to sound or sensation? Or is sensation simply and instantly experienced? Do this as many times as you like, then take a break then do it again...if it gets tight, take a break, go back and look again.
That's it. I see it immediately. It is so obvious now. Sensation and sound arise and are experienced and thought arises too. The content of thought clamours for attention and muddies the waters!
Excellent. Well done Faithy, you're willingness to stay with this process is paying off. Patience and steadfastness go a long way here. Thought, sensation, sound is experienced and that's it, there isn't something else in the mix, some other aspect of experience that is directing or guiding (attention) and sometime that warrants an exclamation mark! :-) Life just happens. Its good to pause with that insight...life just happens.

Looking is so obvious once it happens isn't it! Now you know the difference between looking and thinking continue to practice in your daily life. Make a note of what helped you to look in this way, or anything else that has helped or supported you in the process of looking.
You can spot thinking I'm sure? It's no more significant than the sound of a car passing or the taste of tea, let it come and go and continue to look. But let's be clear - thinking cannot help you here.
Let me know what you're feeling about this Faithy.
Seeing this has allowed a bit more space to creep into daily experience. Subtle but real.
Yes, spaciousness sounds right - stay with the space, explore it, rest in it. Continue to notice the consequences of these practices (i.e. it felt obvious or spacious) and include these details in your posts too because they are important.

Lets try this next exercise bringing to it the same uncluttered quality of looking. To do this you will need to stay vigilant of thought and thought content, let it rise, dont touch it, keep looking.


Raising Hand Exercise

1. Place both hands on a table in front of you, palms down.
2. When you have done that, rest for a moment and then raise one hand in the air but not the other.

Don't go to thoughts, examine your direct experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:-

What is it exactly that is choosing which hand to raise?
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is doing the choosing?
What is it that is controlling the hand?
Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
Can anything be found that makes the hand move?
How is the decision made?


Take your time Faithy, stay steady and let me know how you go

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Faithy
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Re: Stillness

Postby Faithy » Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:01 am

What is it exactly that is choosing which hand to raise?
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is doing the choosing?
What is it that is controlling the hand?
Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
Can anything be found that makes the hand move?
How is the decision made?

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Faithy
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Re: Stillness

Postby Faithy » Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:18 am

Hi Collette,

Ooops the previous post happened all by itself!The problem was there was no I in charge.(Joke)
What is it exactly that is choosing which hand to raise?
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is doing the choosing?
What is it that is controlling the hand?
Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
Can anything be found that makes the hand move?
How is the decision made?
This is the observed sequence.
So Your instructions are read.
Thoughts arise.
A hand is raised.
There is no chooser.
The hand controls itself.
There are sensations experienced.
Thought comes in almost immediately.
Nothing is found that makes the hand move.
The decision is made automatically within the body system.
Thought quickly arises.

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Colette01
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Re: Stillness

Postby Colette01 » Fri Mar 06, 2020 7:49 am

Hi Faithy,

I'm wondering HOW you did this exercise. Did you do it just once? Did you give time for the inquiry? What was the source of the answer - thought or looking? How you do this is important.
The hand controls itself
You say there is no chooser/controller but then say the hand controls itself.
How does the hand control itself exactly?
What steps does the hand make in order to control itself?
Is there a controller/chooser or not?
Can you find choice in AE?

The decision is made automatically within the body system?
How does this happen exactly?
What are the steps that instigated by the body in order to raise the hand when needed, and when not needed - how does the body implement these steps in order for this process to happen?
When does the body know that the hand needs to be raised?
How does the body work this out exactly?


You'll need to make time for this inquiry - when answering DONT SHOOT FROM THE HIP

Lets do the exercise again...slow it down. Its important to explore and then answer each question individually while looking steadily because each question has been included for a reason.


Raising Hand Exercise

1. Place both hands on a table in front of you, palms down.
2. When you have done that, rest for a moment and then raise one hand in the air but not the other.

Don't go to thoughts, examine your direct experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:-

What is it exactly that is choosing which hand to raise?
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is doing the choosing?
What is it that is controlling the hand?
Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
Can anything be found that makes the hand move?
How is the decision made?

Looking forward to hearing your answers

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Faithy
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Re: Stillness

Postby Faithy » Sun Mar 08, 2020 1:39 am

Hi Colette,

I did do this exercise lots of times before I sent the answers in but became stressed by it.
I'll keep working on it until I can see the answers more clearly in a relaxed way.
That hasn't happened yet.

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Colette01
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Re: Stillness

Postby Colette01 » Sun Mar 08, 2020 8:20 am

Yes, the best thing to do, as you say, is relax. If there's efforts (stress) there's thinking or anticipating getting something or not getting it. There is actually no thing to find and we need to let go of thinking to see that - broaden out a little. Take your time, watch thought activity, longer exhale, settle.

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Faithy
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Re: Stillness

Postby Faithy » Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:30 am

Hi Colette,

Perhaps I'm stuck.

I just don't seem to be able to see anything other than what is below.
I've tried this so many times. I haven't been able to answer all the questions.
Any suggestions?
You say there is no chooser/controller but then say the hand controls itself.
How does the hand control itself exactly?
What steps does the hand make in order to control itself?
Is there a controller/chooser or not?
Can you find choice in AE?
No choice in AE.
No controller in AE
The hand doesn't control itself but flows with the arm. The body just reacts automatically to the content of thought. No decision making at all seen in AE.

The decision is made automatically within the body system?
How does this happen exactly?
The right hand goes up in response to the reading of the instructions unless another thought appears and thought content suggests using the other hand. The right hand is dominant habitually and just responds automatically to the instruction. . In AE there doesn't actually appear to be a decision made at all. The right hand is used unless another thought arises and specifically suggests to raise the other.

What is it that is controlling the hand?
Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
Can anything be found that makes the hand move?
How is the decision made?
Nothing controls the hand.
No controller located
Nothing found that makes the hand move.
No decision is made. Either the right hand is raised automatically in response to the instructions or another thought appears and the left hand rises according to the thought content.

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Colette01
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Re: Stillness

Postby Colette01 » Tue Mar 10, 2020 4:48 pm

Hi Faithy,

I dont know that you are stuck....but there is a residual belief that some thing is controlling some thing.
There is no separate self at all in reality. No agent that is in charge, no manager, no watcher, no owner of life. All there is is life flowing freely as one movement
Is there any fear or resistance that is blocking really seeing that there is nothing controlling anything (and the resistance will be thought). Maybe repeat the quote above 'There is no separate self....', rest back and scan for anything that arises, thought, sensation, tension.
The body just reacts automatically to the content of thought
Try this....

Pretend someone just threw a ball at your head. Watch the hand move, very quickly.
Does the hand “choose” to come up and catch the ball? Or does it just rise and catch it, without a thought?
Now, raise your hand and move it to the left, then to the right. Watch the thoughts. Look for a self, something which is not just a thought, which is able to move your hand.
Check and see where a story attaches to that thought, where “I raise my hand” comes in. Before, during, or after the raising?


Let thoughts about this process come and go and just keep going x

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Faithy
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Re: Stillness

Postby Faithy » Fri Mar 13, 2020 10:42 am

Hi Colette,
Is there any fear or resistance that is blocking really seeing that there is nothing controlling anything (and the resistance will be thought). Maybe repeat the quote above 'There is no separate self....', rest back and scan for anything that arises, thought, sensation, tension.
Yes. There is some tension. It was noticed and accepted.
There is no separate self at all in reality. No agent that is in charge, no manager, no watcher, no owner of life. All there is is life flowing freely as one movement
I've had my first glimpses of life flowing freely as one movement this morning . It was a new perspective.

Pretend someone just threw a ball at your head. Watch the hand move, very quickly.
Does the hand “choose” to come up and catch the ball? Or does it just rise and catch it, without a thought?
Now, raise your hand and move it to the left, then to the right. Watch the thoughts. Look for a self, something which is not just a thought, which is able to move your hand.
Check and see where a story attaches to that thought, where “I raise my hand” comes in. Before, during, or after the raising?
If a ball is thrown at the head the hand just comes up to block it. Thought comes after.
The hand goes up and moves from left to right and thought labels it. Thought follows the movement.
No self is evident, nothing that is able to move the hand.

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Colette01
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Re: Stillness

Postby Colette01 » Sat Mar 14, 2020 9:14 am

I've had my first glimpses of life flowing freely as one movement this morning . It was a new perspective.
That's great Faithy! Its wonderful to have a that first glimpse Could you see HOW that happened?
Yes. There is some tension. It was noticed and accepted.
What is the tension? Where? It's resistance - to what?
If a ball is thrown at the head the hand just comes up to block it. Thought comes after.
The hand goes up and moves from left to right and thought labels it. Thought follows the movement.
No self is evident, nothing that is able to move the hand.
Clear looking :-) So thought does not direct or control anything and thoughts arise after the fact. There is thought content that suggests control, a controller, an ability to direct, a director, but it's not true. Take the time to let it sink in.



Let's continue looking at control, decision making and choice with waking up in the morning and getting out of bed.

Can a decision maker be found making the body leave the bed?
Where does the ‘decision’, the ‘command’ to get up come from?
What makes the body get up, is there a ‘you’, or a decider that commands the body?
When lying there, shout 'GET UP' internally as loudly as you can. Does that affect the outcome?

How does the decision happen?
Does a decider come in and take over, weighing pros and cons, looking at possible consequences?
Or does getting up just happen, or not?

Did an 'I' perform assessments and calculations necessary to heave a body into an upright position and then continue to take many decisions about moving legs into exactly the right positions to do 'walking to the kettle'?

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Faithy
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Re: Stillness

Postby Faithy » Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:29 am

Hi Colette,
That's great Faithy! Its wonderful to have a that first glimpse Could you see HOW that happened?
I was just very still listening in the early morning in bed and there was just a subtle shift in the way I was experiencing the moment.
What is the tension? Where? It's resistance - to what?
It's fear that the world will seem less loving after a shift. It's an interesting time on the planet as it is and currently this persona 'faithy' is functioning well and calmly amidst a lot of turbulent family emotions not to mention the crisis work that is my job. I don't want to add to the chaos but be a voice of peace and love. I'm scared I will lose that calmness as belief systems crumble.
Can a decision maker be found making the body leave the bed?
Where does the ‘decision’, the ‘command’ to get up come from?
What makes the body get up, is there a ‘you’, or a decider that commands the body?
When lying there, shout 'GET UP' internally as loudly as you can. Does that affect the outcome?

How does the decision happen?
Does a decider come in and take over, weighing pros and cons, looking at possible consequences?
Or does getting up just happen, or not?

Did an 'I' perform assessments and calculations necessary to heave a body into an upright position and then continue to take many decisions about moving legs into exactly the right positions to do 'walking to the kettle'?
No. Getting up happened after a lot of thought content about getting up. For some unknown and random reason the body just got up without a decision being made as to when or how. Same getting out of the shower-lots of deliberation in thought content but the shower was turned off independently of the thoughts. Shouting internally doesn't make a difference. No decider comes in it just happens. The body moves onto the next thing in its own time.


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