Stillness

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Faithy
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Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2019 10:22 pm

Re: Stillness

Postby Faithy » Fri May 01, 2020 12:08 pm

Hi Colette,
What is there to be detached from life? What is detached.
What could there be that is separate still?
Perhaps detached from the dramas of life and the old emotional responses would be more accurate. I can see that the dramas are coming from thought bubbles and not the present moment's actual unfolding.
Where is the corridor where we wait for pennies to drop? The new revelations dont take time....seeing is right now, always and only now. It only takes a moment to see that time is an idea, and you either see it or you dont and I guess, when you do, there is something to say about that!
I do see that time is only an idea but that doesn't mean my daily living has changed that much yet. Intellectually I don't understand it but I'm not really trying to. I'm just leaving the insights to unfold in their own way. There just hasn't been a big emotional response.
When we see that there is no self, no body, no linear time, when we really begin to see how much of what we've taken for granted is actually nothing more than thought, there is generally an emotional response. It's not intellectual...its more like OMG or Wow or No Way! When what we've believed for so long falls away there is often fear, resistance, amazement, something!
It's been a slow falling away personally (for want of a better word) amidst the rapid changes of the global circumstances. The whole world is so different from 4 months ago. None of us could have believed the changes we've just witnessed could happen in such a short time. I just seem to be present with it all in a quieter way than I would have been a few years ago.
Does the experience of no self right now remain intellectual? Be totally honest with yourself. Is there a hope that you can grasp this mentally but not have things change?
No. I'm open for change. Lets face it . It's already happened on a global scale and not just locally. Does the experience of no self remain an intellectual idea. Maybe.
How is life now compared to when you first started looking?
What has changed and what hasn't?
What is the main difference from before? Is seeking still happening?
The main difference from before is that I no longer know who I am. I've seen clearly that the person I thought I was doesn't exist outside of the contents of thoughts. I see how much thoughts can entrap each human . I don't "know" experientially what I am really outside a few glimpses. I know more what's not true rather than what is. There's an empty space where the concept of self used to be. Does that make sense. Is seeking still happening you ask. Yes. A seeker for a clearer vision of the truth. It feels like dissolving of the old is happening but I still need to experience the underlying self more fully.

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Colette01
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Re: Stillness

Postby Colette01 » Sat May 02, 2020 9:22 pm

Hi Faithy,

I’ll get back to you as soon as I can i’m just a bit busy today and tomorrow

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Faithy
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Re: Stillness

Postby Faithy » Sun May 03, 2020 4:15 am

Hi Colette,

No rush. I hope all is well for you and your loved ones. Thank you, thank you , thank you for all your guidance.

I have had a lovely experience in the night whilst doing a meditation.
I recognised myself as this lovely expanded awareness which I had glimpsed as the background before but not felt myself as. As I had said to you I had realised who I wasn't but was unaware of what I am. Today the awareness has receded to the background but radiating a happy undercurrent to life'. I'll play in this and we'll talk when you are not so busy.

Sincerely sending lots of gratitude to you.

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Colette01
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Re: Stillness

Postby Colette01 » Sun May 03, 2020 7:07 am

Hi Faithy,

thank your for your response and your understanding. Seems like a good time to do this together.

Lets see if the ‘watcher’ or ‘awareness’ is separate in any way from ‘what is seen’. We’ll do a little experiment on hearing for this.

Hearing experiment

Here's what’s needed - A place to sit quietly and some sounds. Any sound will do, music, birds singing, traffic, rain etc.

Sit for a few moments, take a few relaxed breath and let the dust settle. Close your eyes and listen to the sound. And from the direct experience of hearing, answer these questions:

Do you experience a separate or independent perceiver?
But going by the sounds themselves and not by thought, inference or imagination, do you actually experience a separate hearer or perceiver?
What would the hearer sound like? Can you hear the ‘hearer’?
Do you experience the birds (assuming you are listening to birds singing), to be independent of sound?
Don’t go by what you think must be true in order to explain perception. Instead, go by your direct experience.
But do you also experience a bird making the sound? In other words, do you experience a bird in addition to the sound?
You would be experiencing a bird existing outside your experience. But do you?
Going by hearing alone, is there anything directly experienced about the bird other than a bird-sound?
Do you experience a sound to be independent of hearing?
Do you experience a sound waiting to be heard, a sound outside the scope of your hearing ?
Do you directly experience a sound already present which you then proceed to hear?
Do you experience the sound as separate from you?
Do you experience it to be at any distance from you?
Do you experience hearing to be independent of the ‘watcher’ or awareness?
Do you experience hearing itself as something existing outside of the ‘watcher’?
Do you hear hearing?


Now think about the other senses for a moment.
Do you see hearing?
Do you taste or smell hearing?
Do you directly experience a moment when awareness is absent ?


Lots of questions but a very good experiment. I also think now's a good time to summarize your findings.

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Faithy
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Re: Stillness

Postby Faithy » Wed May 06, 2020 8:07 am

Hi Colette,

My ability to drop deeply into AE fluctuates a lot. This household is very busy at the moment and there is limited time to be alone so I'm taking time to get back to you because I want to honour the process and your gift of guidance. I hope this feels OK for you. The answers I give here aren't true for every time I try to drop into AE to get answers as sometimes it's harder to let go into the experience as fully.
Do you experience a separate or independent perceiver?
But going by the sounds themselves and not by thought, inference or imagination, do you actually experience a separate hearer or perceiver?
I notice in content of thought there is a separate perceiver but in AE there is just hearing
What would the hearer sound like? Can you hear the ‘hearer’?
There is no hearer
Do you experience the birds (assuming you are listening to birds singing), to be independent of sound?
Don’t go by what you think must be true in order to explain perception. Instead, go by your direct experience.
But do you also experience a bird making the sound? In other words, do you experience a bird in addition to the sound?


No. In AE there is only the household sounds (no birds atm). The supposed knowing of what the sounds arise from is in the content of thought.
You would be experiencing a bird existing outside your experience. But do you?
No. In AE there is only the hearing
Going by hearing alone, is there anything directly experienced about the bird other than a bird-sound?
No
Do you experience a sound to be independent of hearing?
No
Do you experience a sound waiting to be heard, a sound outside the scope of your hearing ?
There is only hearing. The concept of sound is in content of thought.
Do you directly experience a sound already present which you then proceed to hear?
No
Do you experience the sound as separate from you?
Only in the content of thought not in AE. Sometimes the sound still appears to be separate depending on
Do you experience it to be at any distance from you?
The answer to this fluctuates in experience. At times there is still distance but in the purer moments of AE there is no distance.
Do you experience hearing to be independent of the ‘watcher’ or awareness?
No
Do you experience hearing itself as something existing outside of the ‘watcher’?
There is no watcher
Do you hear hearing?
No
Now think about the other senses for a moment.
Do you see hearing?
Do you taste or smell hearing?
No, there is no taste or smell to hearing nor hearing that can be seen although these sensations can arise simultaneously
Do you directly experience a moment when awareness is absent ?
No

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Colette01
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Re: Stillness

Postby Colette01 » Fri May 08, 2020 8:52 am

Hi Faithy,

thank you for your responses. Let's check in where we're up to with the following questions. Staying with whatever is true for you at this time please answer in some detail rather than just 'no' or 'yes'.


1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

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Colette01
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Re: Stillness

Postby Colette01 » Mon May 11, 2020 7:36 am

Hi Faithy,

have you had a chance to look over the previous questions?

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Faithy
Posts: 101
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2019 10:22 pm

Re: Stillness

Postby Faithy » Tue May 12, 2020 6:54 am

Hi Colette,
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
No. A separate me is a story that appears in thoughts. Human beings live to a greater or lesser extent within the boundaries of the current "me" story. For me I recognise the story is not true but constantly forget at a superficial level throughout busy days. I recognise that the story was never true but am also not free of it. I don't expect to be free of it either.
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
The illusion of the separate self begins at birth or perhaps conception with the mother and father and society seeing the baby as separate . During early childhood life may be experienced as the oneness but gradually a child is indoctrinated to live life according to the thoughts and cultural beliefs of their environment. We educate the child along the principles that they are separate and their minds are trained to live paying utmost attention to their thoughts rather than the experience of Presence. Layer by layer concepts are introduced and Presence is ignored until pure experience is difficult to recognise. For myself I see the process happening in reverse where layers are being recognised as untrue and sometimes dissolving sometimes softening and losing power.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
It feels concerning to see this because I have 5 small grandchildren that are currently being brainwashed into our society's values. For myself it's comfortable, just the process. Before this dialogue I was unaware of the dominance of content of thoughts. I had not seen how quickly labels arise on top of actual experience. I was aware of the field of Presence but less aware than I am now. I KNOW I'm not the old egoic self that I thought I was but still haven't recognised myself as this field of Presence although intellectually I would like to believe it. Belief however is not enough. I want to know. I often become aware of an underlying "Presence" of peacefulness during the day and breathe into this awareness as it nurtures my being.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?
I've been looking since I was very young. This call to "know" has become urgent within me over the last few years . Knowing feels like the best gift I can give to my fellow human beings and our planet.
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
I haven't seen this clearly yet only through glimpses. When the ego appears to be faced with a decision life just moves and the concepts of thought create a layer of the illusion of control and choice. Things happen perhaps influenced by conditioning or perhaps totally randomly and thoughts label, explain, tell a story abut "ME."I don't know what makes things happen. Intention is a thought concept. Obviously the ego has an ongoing role with an awakening being and intention seems to be valuable to continue to assist awakening. Intention feels important on the personal level but has no meaning in the Oneness. Free will is a thought concept.The true self has no need of free will. Free from what? As life unfolds I experience.
6) Anything to add?
I am wondering if it's time for you to move on to another seeker?
I am pressuring myself because of your gift of time and guidance eg "I should be awakening faster." That's absolutely not from any pressure from you merely from thoughts but nonetheless I feel it might be more helpful also for me at this time to be more relaxed and observe the openings which are coming in continuing glimpses . I'd like not to sever our connection totally but I don't know the normal protocol?

What do you make of all this Colette? I am deeply, deeply grateful to you for this gift that you have given me. This work is so valuable perhaps especially at this challenging time on our planet when so many are suffering. I am feeling a deepening acceptance and peacefulness as life unfolds. I experience deep and powerful heart openings which may come with a few gentle tears and a flood of love and compassion for anyone or everyone. I hope you are peaceful and healthy on the other side of our beautiful planet.

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Colette01
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Re: Stillness

Postby Colette01 » Tue May 12, 2020 7:31 am

Hi Faithy,

thank you for your responses and the time and effort you have put into this inquiry. I think it is time to stop the inquiry also. My feeling is that there although there is an intellectual understanding of no self it has not been fully seen though. I wish you all the very best. Colette

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Faithy
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Re: Stillness

Postby Faithy » Tue May 12, 2020 10:25 am

Thanks Colette for your honesty.
I wish you all the best too and will always be very grateful to you.


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