Freedom Now

Welcome to the main forum. When you are ready to start a conversation, register and once your application is processed a guide will come to talk to you.
This is one-on-one style forum, one thread per green member.
User avatar
MeFree
Posts: 123
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2019 6:51 am

Re: Freedom Now

Postby MeFree » Sat Oct 24, 2020 6:20 pm

Hi Ilona
Thank you for sitting down and writing all this out. You can see the mechanisms and how they function to protect from trauma. Yes there is holding on to the idea of being a chooser to feel more secure.
Yes. Thank you for the acknowledgement.

Let’s look right there. You are here right this moment. Reading these words. Aware of the letters on the screen. You don’t need to do anything about it, it’s simply happening. You don’t need to choose or decide anything, this moment is already here as it is and it’s not possible to change it. Is there a chooser right here right now?
What comes up when you ask this?
While reading this the chooser is in the background. Reading is taking place but previous to reading there was a choice made to begin reading. And then there will be a choice of what to do after the reading is over.
If so what is it choosing right now? And can he choose differently than what is already here?
What do you notice?
What is here now is here now. Can not choose a different here/now.

Yet choices occur that will influence the unfolding of future events. Right now I am going through a major life transition and need to decide where to live, what type of work to do, who I will be in relationship with. Lots and lots of stressful mental activity trying to decide which path to take. Do I live in this place or this place? Do I take this job or that job? Do I pursue this potential relationship partner or that one?

And the worst part is that I often make choices that result in a lot of unhappiness, as a form of self punishment :( In the moment it seems that I am making the "best" choice but then later I see that I am actually denying myself the happiness and satisfaction that I am longing for. I am a master at making self defeating decisions!
As for separate selves in real people, well, once it’s clear that there is no separate self this question gets answered.
Ok I will take your word on this one. I'm just very tired of the Santa metaphor!
It seems that thinking about division creates division. But the concept of division is only in the mind, The actually is undivided.
Is there anyone outside of life, separate from life?
No one is outside of life, that is clear. I am inside of life, yet within my own private bubble, so to speak. Yes the mind creates division, how to stop that particular mental activity?

One thing I have noticed is that when I tune into it, "sense of self" is pretty much exactly like the "sense of being separate".

Ok that's it for now.
Thank you!

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 7937
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Lithuania
Contact:

Re: Freedom Now

Postby Ilona » Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:05 am

Thank you for sharing. Sounds like you are shifting on a lot of aspects— it’s happening as it should be happening.
Now this is a shocker!
I am a master at making self defeating decisions!
This is your hand-break. Do you want to continue living life with such an idea? What do you get from believing this? And who told you that? This is a serious stuff, and this belief is at the core of all your decisions. Time to questions this thief and see what you learn from that. Explore deeply.

Another question, you say you are inside of life in your own bubble. Hm. How about this- there is aliveness in you. You are here right now aware of the words in the screen and of their meaning. This awareness, knowing is the very life. Where is the bubble?
Is a drop of water as a form separate from water?
Here is a video for you. Connect to your own sense of aliveness https://youtu.be/LXrfQqvwIcU
Is aliveness something that can be separated by thoughts?

Explore this.
Love

User avatar
MeFree
Posts: 123
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2019 6:51 am

Re: Freedom Now

Postby MeFree » Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:21 pm

Hi Ilona
Sounds like you are shifting on a lot of aspects— it’s happening as it should be happening.

Yes, lot of shifting around. Feeling very much up in the air!

Now this is a shocker!
I am a master at making self defeating decisions!

This is your hand-break. Do you want to continue living life with such an idea?

No I do not want to continue making poor choices. Do not want to continue to punish myself for making poor choices either.

What do you get from believing this?

I try to make the best choice in the moment but never really know if it's going to lead to happiness or unhappiness. Can't tell if I'm choosing something that will lead to later regrets. Lots of second guessing after choices are made. Lots of "beating myself up" about making poor choices. Lots of indecision and anxiety prior to choosing and then quite often intense self directed anger after choosing.

And who told you that?
Nobody told me that other than my own mind. It seems to be fairly accurate description that came after watching myself throughout my lifetime.

This is a serious stuff, and this belief is at the core of all your decisions. Time to questions this thief and see what you learn from that. Explore deeply.

Historically I was discouraged from making decisions in my family. Parents controlled all major life choices until I was in my 30s. Still have a lot of anxiety around decisions. Choices could lead to disaster as well as positive outcomes, I never know which way it will go until it is too late. Then the inner judgemental voice berates me endlessly. Just being able to quiet the constant berating would be a major improvement in my life!

Another question, you say you are inside of life in your own bubble. Hm. How about this- there is aliveness in you. You are here right now aware of the words in the screen and of their meaning. This awareness, knowing is the very life. Where is the bubble?

There is not a physical bubble. It is a metaphorical bubble.

Is a drop of water as a form separate from water?

No a drop of water is still water. But each seperete drop of water is still a seperete drop of water, even if they are made from the same material.

Even if I am "life" I don't see that life is really anything more than an umbrella phrase to describe the totality of the things in the universe of existence. There is nothing I can point to that is "life" any more than I can point to "myself".

Here is a video for you. Connect to your own sense of aliveness https://youtu.be/LXrfQqvwIcU
Is aliveness something that can be separated by thoughts?

There is a sense of aliveness for the personal me, yes. I don't understand exactly what you are asking here. Separated from what?

Ok that's it for now.
Thank you!

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 7937
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Lithuania
Contact:

Re: Freedom Now

Postby Ilona » Thu Oct 29, 2020 6:23 am

Thank you for sharing. Now it makes sense, your family’s controlling behaviour has made a deep impact on how you see choices. So let’s look freshly.
No I do not want to continue making poor choices. Do not want to continue to punish myself for making poor choices either.
Let’s look at the first part of this. I don’t want to make poor choices.
What makes a choice a poor choice and what makes a choose a great choice?
What is that chooses?

Let’s say you want to go right or left and it’s not as simple and you turn one way and go. You stop there at the crossroad and think. You take time to think and eventually you turn right. Then you keep going and your thinking stays at crossroad, was this right — was this wrong? Then something happens and you regret going right and punish yourself for making bad choice.
But what if this is as simple as coming to crossroads an simply turning one way and all the mental work about it is added on, optional?
Choice happens, it’s neither good nor bad until mind makes it so.
So the idea here is to stop wanting to make poor choices by seeing that choices are made and what is meant to happen happens, what is not meant to happen does not happen and there is nothing you can do about that.
What is meant to happen = all conditions come together for that to happen and there is nothing else that can happen. There is nothing you can do to make it different. There is always a choice that feels right, you feel it. The choice is already given within situation. You feel some kind of pull and inner agreement. So really this is a question of trusting life, trusting that all is unfolding as it should. You can tie yourself up and analyse a choice from all different angles, but what happens happens and trust that. How does this sound?

I hear you about your family’s way of managing you and can you tell me, could they have acted differently or was it the only way that they could act? Did they have a choice to act in a different way?

No a drop of water is still water. But each seperete drop of water is still a seperete drop of water, even if they are made from the same material.
Each drop of water is water in a form labelled a drop. It is water showing up as plurality of drops.
Each human is aliveness in a form labelled human.
You are not separate from your essence. That sense of being is IT. The sense of being is the same for all forms, there is no personal being. Can you check, do you own aliveness or is it given? Do you need to do anything to be?

Love.

User avatar
MeFree
Posts: 123
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2019 6:51 am

Re: Freedom Now

Postby MeFree » Fri Oct 30, 2020 5:23 pm

Hi Ilona
Thank you for sharing. Now it makes sense, your family’s controlling behaviour has made a deep impact on how you see choices. So let’s look freshly.
No I do not want to continue making poor choices. Do not want to continue to punish myself for making poor choices either.
Let’s look at the first part of this. I don’t want to make poor choices.
What makes a choice a poor choice and what makes a choose a great choice?
What is that chooses?
The mind/feelings judge the choice as poor or great, based on the outcome. Did the choice result in any injury or loss or disappointment or unhappiness? First there is the judgement then there is the self punishment. It's like the mind is just waiting to pounce on any reason to start the self punishment. Would love to be able to stop the self punishment and second guessing and regrets! That's partly what brought me to the "no self" teachings = if there is no self, there would be no self punishment (at least that is the fantasy).
Let’s say you want to go right or left and it’s not as simple and you turn one way and go. You stop there at the crossroad and think. You take time to think and eventually you turn right. Then you keep going and your thinking stays at crossroad, was this right — was this wrong? Then something happens and you regret going right and punish yourself for making bad choice.
Yes that is accurate. My mind won't let me win. If I choose to go right, the mind says "should have gone left". If I choose to go left the mind says "should have gone right".
But what if this is as simple as coming to crossroads an simply turning one way and all the mental work about it is added on, optional?
In theory yes, the mental work is optional but am unable to stop it. Anxiety about making the best choice leads to this mental back-and-forth of indecision. Often I will choose what I think I "should" do instead of what I actually feel moved to do, just to lower the anxiety levels.
Choice happens, it’s neither good nor bad until mind makes it so.
Yes that is true. Unfortunately my mind tends to be very quick to make some very harsh judgements!
So the idea here is to stop wanting to make poor choices by seeing that choices are made and what is meant to happen happens, what is not meant to happen does not happen and there is nothing you can do about that.
So really it's all just conditioning or karma playing itself out and even though it seems like I have choices, actually there is no such thing as choice?
What is meant to happen = all conditions come together for that to happen and there is nothing else that can happen. There is nothing you can do to make it different. There is always a choice that feels right, you feel it. The choice is already given within situation. You feel some kind of pull and inner agreement. So really this is a question of trusting life, trusting that all is unfolding as it should. You can tie yourself up and analyse a choice from all different angles, but what happens happens and trust that. How does this sound?
Well yes, what happens is what happens. I just feel intense pressure to know the outcome before making the decision. Very hard to balance what I want to choose with the potential dangers of that choice. I often do feel an inner pull in one direction but I don't trust it and my mind won't let it be that simple. I really do wish I could trust the inner intuition and trust life!!
I hear you about your family’s way of managing you and can you tell me, could they have acted differently or was it the only way that they could act? Did they have a choice to act in a different way?
What happened is what happened. I don't know if they could have done anything differently. Probably not.
No a drop of water is still water. But each seperete drop of water is still a seperete drop of water, even if they are made from the same material.
Each drop of water is water in a form labelled a drop. It is water showing up as plurality of drops.
Each human is aliveness in a form labelled human.
You are not separate from your essence. That sense of being is IT. The sense of being is the same for all forms, there is no personal being. Can you check, do you own aliveness or is it given? Do you need to do anything to be?
I do not own aliveness. Aliveness comes prior to ownership. I don't need to do anything other than continue to breathe, eat, drink. But then there is what we call "quality of life" issues that create problems. If I was totally content to just live in a cave or under the freeway eating scraps then it really would be a lot more simple!

Thank you!

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 7937
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Lithuania
Contact:

Re: Freedom Now

Postby Ilona » Mon Nov 02, 2020 7:04 am

Thank you for honest sharing.
Would love to be able to stop the self punishment and second guessing and regrets! That's partly what brought me to the "no self" teachings = if there is no self, there would be no self punishment (at least that is the fantasy).
Yes, that is right, what is this self that is being punished? Where do these punishments land? Who or what is there to take them?

It’s well noticed, that the mind is running on its own and it’s not something you can control. But we can show the mind areas where it can self adjust. And we do that by asking questions.

So what is this self that is punisher and what is the self that is the victim? How many selves are there? What’s going on really?

There are thought patterns and emotions. There is judgement and reactions. And all is happening by itself, like weather.
A question is where are you?
Are you the victim, the perpetrator, the saviour or are you seeing these patterns playing out?

https://youtu.be/eY4eMWtJPr4 This video may help to see through. There are questions there. Work with them.

Love.

User avatar
MeFree
Posts: 123
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2019 6:51 am

Re: Freedom Now

Postby MeFree » Tue Nov 03, 2020 7:01 pm

Hi Ilona

I will try to answer your questions as accurately as I can but for the most part I just don't know.
Lots of resistance today.
what is this self that is being punished?

I don't know. Me. But I don't know what me is.

Where do these punishments land?

They land on the emotions, on the body, on the mind


Who or what is there to take them?

I don't know. It feels very hurtful but I don't know really what is taking them.

It’s well noticed, that the mind is running on its own and it’s not something you can control. But we can show the mind areas where it can self adjust. And we do that by asking questions.

Ok I'm open to that.

So what is this self that is punisher and what is the self that is the victim?

Both are me. Different"parts" of me.

How many selves are there?
I don't know the total number of "parts" but there are many.

What’s going on really?

Good question but I don't know. I am open to looking but don't see how it's working at all. There is a lot of fragmentation of the inner self. In one paradigm I would say that there are all sorts of "inner child" parts, as well as "internalized parents" parts. But that is something that I learned to use as an explanation. The actual experience is more chaotic. There are a multitude of separate mental/emotional "parts" interacting and conflicting with each other.


There are thought patterns and emotions. There is judgement and reactions. And all is happening by itself, like weather.
A question is where are you?

I don't know. I'm the one who is suffering all these mental/emotional storms.

Are you the victim, the perpetrator, the saviour or are you seeing these patterns playing out?
I am all of those parts.


https://youtu.be/eY4eMWtJPr4 This video may help to see through. There are questions there. Work with them.

I watched the video but am really blank. Need to watch again and write down the questions, they went by pretty quickly in the video.

One thing I want to add is that I have been noticing some strong resistances coming up. One is about death, or fear of annihilation. That last time that the illusionary self was seen through (temporarily) there was huge disappointment and there was also this feeling of death of self. Not that "there never was a self" but more like the self was dying. This feeling that I am dying is one resistance. There is fear of annihilation and yet at the same time there is also the desire to just die and get it over with already!!!

The other resistance is the very strong thought/belief that "seeing through the illusion"/ "enlightenment" / "liberation". (whatever it is called) will never give me what I want! It will never result in me living the life that I want to live. I want the fear to end, not the end of me! Do you understand what I mean? I want the me to stay and the fears to go, not having the self go and the fear stay! So this is really holding me back in a big way. Am really feeling this very strongly, so much that there are thoughts of getting off of the self inquiry train altogether.

"Liberation will never give me what I want". The original expectation was one of some sort of fantasy of fearlessness. That is obviously not where this is going. So maybe I need to put more energy into pursuing that goal rather than continue on this path that I am currently on.... Ok just wanted to share that with you. That's what the resistance is about right now.

And at the same time as these resistances, I can see the potential freedom in not claiming ownership for whatever occurs. No ownership of thoughts, feelings, choices, actions does seem to open up into a lot of possibility of freedom....

Ok thats it for now
Thank you!

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 7937
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Lithuania
Contact:

Re: Freedom Now

Postby Ilona » Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:16 pm

Thank you for sharing openly. Yeah, resistance is a strong experience. And it’s good to see it come up as it’s clearly here to protect.
Liberation is not going to give me what I want, hm, what do you want? Can you put in a sentence, what do you truly want?

You say you want the fear to go. I hear you. But fear is here and it’s not listening to what you want. So let’s hear what is that fear want? Can you allow the fear to be here? It is doing it’s job. It’s a valid experience. You don’t need to fear the fear itself. It’s a sensation. And it’s ok to feel all kinds of sensations including fear. Can you see that?

All fragmented parts seek to come back to unity and it happens by allowing, by welcoming, by saying yes to all. Yes to fear. Yes to resistance, yes to experience that is here now.

And sure, there are waves of up and down with various degrees of intensity. Is that ok? Or should your experience be different?

Love

User avatar
MeFree
Posts: 123
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2019 6:51 am

Re: Freedom Now

Postby MeFree » Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:10 pm

Hi Ilona
Thank you for sharing openly. Yeah, resistance is a strong experience. And it’s good to see it come up as it’s clearly here to protect.
Yes, it is good to be aware of the resistance.
Liberation is not going to give me what I want, hm, what do you want? Can you put in a sentence, what do you truly want?
Want fearlessness, satisfaction, fulfillment, freedom, love, belonging, contentment, ecstasy. Want to live in ongoing fearless bliss-consciousness. (Yes, that does sound like quite a big fantasy! But really I just want to live without the phobic terror!)
You say you want the fear to go. I hear you. But fear is here and it’s not listening to what you want. So let’s hear what is that fear want? Can you allow the fear to be here? It is doing it’s job. It’s a valid experience. You don’t need to fear the fear itself. It’s a sensation. And it’s ok to feel all kinds of sensations including fear. Can you see that?
I get the idea that what you are calling fear is different from what I'm calling fear. The fear I am speaking of is extremely intense and all pervasive terror. Completely life and death intensity. Phobic intensity to the point where it runs my life choices. Am extremely limited in what options are available to me in life. It is way beyond "just a sensation". It is way beyond being anything acceptable. Panic, terror, fear that is completely diasabling. Completely unacceptable, cannot allow it at all.
All fragmented parts seek to come back to unity and it happens by allowing, by welcoming, by saying yes to all. Yes to fear. Yes to resistance, yes to experience that is here now.
Some fragments are more able to integrate than other parts. Some days there is more integration than on other days. The phobic parts are not integrating.
And sure, there are waves of up and down with various degrees of intensity. Is that ok? Or should your experience be different?
Some intensities are ok, others are not. Yes, my experience should be different. I should be different.

Thank you

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 7937
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Lithuania
Contact:

Re: Freedom Now

Postby Ilona » Wed Nov 11, 2020 7:57 am

Thank you for sharing openly. I understand, what you call fear is not the same as what I call fear. To be honest, I have no experience of panic and terror that you talk about.
I get the idea that what you are calling fear is different from what I'm calling fear. The fear I am speaking of is extremely intense and all pervasive terror. Completely life and death intensity. Phobic intensity to the point where it runs my life choices. Am extremely limited in what options are available to me in life. It is way beyond "just a sensation". It is way beyond being anything acceptable. Panic, terror, fear that is completely diasabling. Completely unacceptable, cannot allow it at all.
What you wrote here tells me, that I am not able to assist you over this limited messaging. I would advice to work with someone in person, that knows how to help dealing with phobias and panic attacks. There are many ways to reduce intensity. One technique that I know and can recommend is EFT, emotional freedom technique, which you can learn and apply by yourself.

Seeing no self does not fix anything, it’s not the end of clearing, rather a beginning and it helps to be stable and be able to look at your own conditioned patterns calmly. In my experience, fear is protecting the structure and any attempt to destabilise it will bring up resistance.

We can work on that, but in person, over Skype, over a period of time. I honestly think, that forum messages are not suited for that.

With love.

User avatar
MeFree
Posts: 123
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2019 6:51 am

Re: Freedom Now

Postby MeFree » Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:08 pm

Hi Ilona
Thank you for sharing openly. I understand, what you call fear is not the same as what I call fear.
Thank you for the acknowledgement
To be honest, I have no experience of panic and terror that you talk about.
You are very fortunate in that respect!
What you wrote here tells me, that I am not able to assist you over this limited messaging. I would advice to work with someone in person, that knows how to help dealing with phobias and panic attacks. There are many ways to reduce intensity. One technique that I know and can recommend is EFT, emotional freedom technique, which you can learn and apply by yourself.
I have been working on this in therapy for many years. I don't expect you to be able to help with this particular issue. I just wanted you to understand that for me fear is much more than "just a sensation".
Seeing no self does not fix anything, it’s not the end of clearing, rather a beginning and it helps to be stable and be able to look at your own conditioned patterns calmly. In my experience, fear is protecting the structure and any attempt to destabilise it will bring up resistance.
Resistance is ok. The intense fear that runs my life does not seem to be related to the inquiry we are doing. I'm just saying that sometimes in life there is fear that is beyond my ability to tolerate.
We can work on that, but in person, over Skype, over a period of time. I honestly think, that forum messages are not suited for that.
Yes I agree, this forum is not for that. I just wanted you to understand that fear is sometimes more than "just a sensation".

My hope for this Liberation Unleashed process is to release the chronic tension and contraction that comes along with being a seperete self. Now whether or not this is related to fear I don't know. But last time you asked me what it is that I really want and this is what is coming up today.

Thank you

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 7937
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Lithuania
Contact:

Re: Freedom Now

Postby Ilona » Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:38 pm

Thank you for clarifying.
My hope for this Liberation Unleashed process is to release the chronic tension and contraction that comes along with being a seperete self. Now whether or not this is related to fear I don't know. But last time you asked me what it is that I really want and this is what is coming up today.
This process, the way I see it is about being able to question the most precious belief and fear comes up as it protects the belief from being found out that it is not the truth. So fear and being able to move past it is very much part of this. I would say that fear like phobias are not so relevant. Panic attacks are also intense fear and that can be a result of trauma. It may seem, that this process is about loosening fear and being able to look at it and behind it, examining it. So it is good that fear comes up to be seen. But if there is too much fear, then this fear has to be addressed first.

Does this make sense?

Now if you look at your fear, what do you notice, how would you describe it? What is protected by it?

Love.

User avatar
MeFree
Posts: 123
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2019 6:51 am

Re: Freedom Now

Postby MeFree » Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:25 am

Hi Ilona
This process, the way I see it is about being able to question the most precious belief and fear comes up as it protects the belief from being found out that it is not the truth. So fear and being able to move past it is very much part of this. I would say that fear like phobias are not so relevant. Panic attacks are also intense fear and that can be a result of trauma. It may seem, that this process is about loosening fear and being able to look at it and behind it, examining it. So it is good that fear comes up to be seen. But if there is too much fear, then this fear has to be addressed first.

Does this make sense?
Yes this makes sense. The phobias are very situationally specific. Undoubtedly trauma related. Does not seem related to this inquiry process. But definitely a dominating factor in my day to day life.

The fear that comes up related to this inquiry process is much more tolerable than the traumatic fear. Well as I write this I'm not even aware of any fear regarding this process, so that is interesting...
Now if you look at your fear, what do you notice, how would you describe it?
Don't know how to describe it exactly. Unable to feel body sometimes. Dissociated. Strong physical tension. Tendency to hold breath. Gripping with hands, trying to hold on. Vertigo. Mental images of imminent disaster. Intense need to get out of the situation, escape. That's the phobic reaction.

The "normal" fear that comes up is more of the belly tension, heart racing type of thing. Stay in body, but with increased tension.
What is protected by it?
The body/mind is being protected. The "sense of being me" is being protected as well. Fear just shows up as fear of death or injury. It is not clear whether the fear is about death of the body or death of the "self". I mean sometimes it is obvious that the fear is about physical injury and sometimes it is about some emotional or social injury, such as rejection or humiliation. Seems there are different types of fear depending on the situation and the potential dangers.

I never before had the distinction between death of this body and the death of this "self". Up until now it was just "death". But now it is known that the I-me-self can die while the body/mind continues to live. So this is a new way of seeing the whole idea of death.

Recently I wrote that "liberation won't give me what I want". Have been pondering this. Of course liberation will never give "me" what "I" want! Death of the illusionary self won't be satisfying the desires of that illusionary self, that's not the way it works, as far as I can tell. Death of the I-me-self appears to take away all meaning from life. The body continues to live and do its thing, but it is like an empty husk, utterly meaningless. And the funny part is that while there is strong resistance, at the same time there is a strong attraction!

Ok that's it for now.
Thank you!

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 7937
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Lithuania
Contact:

Re: Freedom Now

Postby Ilona » Wed Nov 25, 2020 6:50 am

Thank you for answering.
But now it is known that the I-me-self can die while the body/mind continues to live. So this is a new way of seeing the whole idea of death.
I-me-self cannot die. There is nothing there! Can batman die? Can idea die? Can a name die?
When you look at I, that apparently can die, what do you see? How do you know that there is a self that can die? Where Is the sense of self, locate it, is this sense you? Or is it another sensation among others?
Explore this.

Love.

User avatar
MeFree
Posts: 123
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2019 6:51 am

Re: Freedom Now

Postby MeFree » Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:17 pm

Hi Ilona
Happy Thanksgiving!
I-me-self cannot die.
If you say so. Feels like death. Let's call it metaphorical death. The end. Even the end of an illusion is an end.
There is nothing there!
There is an experience here of being an I-me-self as a real and true living being.
Can batman die? Can idea die? Can a name die?
Yes. Characters in stories can die off. Happens all the time. Ideas can change. Names can change.
When you look at I, that apparently can die, what do you see?
I don't see anything. I am the one who is looking. I can not see my own I.
How do you know that there is a self that can die?
It is known that there is a self who can die. It is the most obvious knowledge. However, the mechanism of how the knowing works is unknown.
Where Is the sense of self, locate it, is this sense you? Or is it another sensation among others?
Explore this.
There is no actual sense of self. Self appears to exist with no sensation. There is no sensation that is the self, there are only sensations experienced by the self.

Ok that's it.
Thank you


Return to “THE GATE”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests