Freedom Now

[MeFree]

Hi Ilona

Ideas, images, concepts are added on upon actuality. What is here is with and without concepts. Can you see?

Yes, I understand the definitions of concept and actuality. The definitions are clear. What I mean that in day-to-day life they get mushed together into one experience. And the mind doesn't seem to know what is the actuality and what is it's own creation. Both appear together as a single experience.

Like the self. The self image has been created by the mind, yet it shows up in experience as a real actual thing. Right? This is what we have been looking at. We have been talking about the self as a character or as a mistaken "sense of self". Is there a self? Is there a real "I"? The mind has created this mistaken identity of a self, a me, an I but at the same time the mind does not recognize it as a creation, it appears as an actuality. That's what I mean by being confused.

It's like this for all beliefs - the mind has created something that appears in experience as an actuality, even though in reality it is a mind creation, not the actuality at all. Going through life with mind created projections that it doesn't recognize as projections. More than just labels, also meanings, associations, memories, all mushed up with the actuality of what is being perceived.

I invite you to watch this video and explore with me what is the difference between real and conceptual.
https://youtu.be/EPJpawRlmh4

Thanks for the video. There's a lot to absorb here! Will need to watch it again. I have the intellectual understanding but unfortunately the current ongoing experience does not reflect that understanding.

The illusionary nature of "me" has been seen through previously but then here "me" is again, taking credit for choices and all of the usual I, me, mine stuff is still going on. Seeing that there is no actual self is not the ongoing experience. Now it's like "I" have a memory of that seeing. It's like "I" saw that there is no "I" which is an absurd situation. In any case the belief in I me mine is very tenacious!

I also watched the other new video, about the painful patterns. I recognized that you mentioned a lot of the things that I have written to you. I liked what you said in the video. Nice to feel acknowledged. Thank you for addressing some of the things I am struggling with. Seems like it could be a useful for a lot of people. Will definitely watch it again to absorb more of the message. Thanks for your support Ilona!

Ok that's it for now.
Thank you!

[Ilona]

And the mind doesn't seem to know what is the actuality and what is it's own creation. Both appear together as a single experience. Like the self. The self image has been created by the mind, yet it shows up in experience as a real actual thing. Right?

Not at all. Image and actuality do not touch each other. Never happens. Impossible to happen. So all images are not actuality. It’s not that one image can be reality and another is not. No image is actuality. Actuality is here always present. Touch a wall in your room. Is it actual or imagined? Imagine you are touching the same wall. How is that different? Can image of the wall ever be actuality?

See, if you go to a forest and see a snake on the road, the first thing is to be couscous, to know it’s dangerous and seeing the snake brings up an alert, a signal that you better be careful. And if you are brave enough you look closer and see it’s a branch, not a snake. That is actuality. When you look you see what is actual. The snake was imagined. The snake could never become a branch, it was never there. The snake was superimposed on the branch and looked real, but there was never a snake.

Same is this self. It’s pure imagination superimposed on actuality. The image of self is just that, an image. The mind knows that. Check.

Can you see the difference between actual and imagined? What is actual is here without added on image upon it. The idea is to look at the actuality and see it for what it is. The imagined self never becomes a real self. Pinnokio can not become a real boy.

So what is here without imagined self?

Love.

[MeFree]

Hi Ilona

And the mind doesn't seem to know what is the actuality and what is it's own creation. Both appear together as a single experience. Like the self. The self image has been created by the mind, yet it shows up in experience as a real actual thing. Right?

Not at all. Image and actuality do not touch each other. Never happens. Impossible to happen. So all images are not actuality. It’s not that one image can be reality and another is not. No image is actuality. Actuality is here always present. Touch a wall in your room. Is it actual or imagined? Imagine you are touching the same wall. How is that different? Can image of the wall ever be actuality?

Yes. I understand what you are saying. Image is never the actuality. What I was trying to say was that the imagined self isn't real but APPEARS as a real thing. I think we are in agreement about that?

See, if you go to a forest and see a snake on the road, the first thing is to be couscous, to know it’s dangerous and seeing the snake brings up an alert, a signal that you better be careful. And if you are brave enough you look closer and see it’s a branch, not a snake. That is actuality. When you look you see what is actual. The snake was imagined. The snake could never become a branch, it was never there. The snake was superimposed on the branch and looked real, but there was never a snake.

Yes, agreed. The image is superimposed on the actuality. The image APPEARS as the actuality, but isn't. The image is often *mistaken* for the actuality. Yes.

Same is this self. It’s pure imagination superimposed on actuality. The image of self is just that, an image. The mind knows that. Check.

Intellectually yes, the mind knows that the image is not the actuality. Yes. Yet still it continues the falsehood in day-to-day life. Don't know why.

Can you see the difference between actual and imagined? What is actual is here without added on image upon it. The idea is to look at the actuality and see it for what it is. The imagined self never becomes a real self. Pinnokio can not become a real boy.

Again I believe that I understand what you are saying but understanding alone doesn't seem to be enough to create a shift in experience. So I will keep looking. Keep looking.....

So what is here without imagined self?

Body and mind. That's all that is left. Yet mind so desperatly wants an I, a me, a self that it keeps creating one. Don't know why. Don't know what purpose it serves. Don't know why this belief in imagined self is so tenacious!

Thank you!

[Ilona]

In self inquiry question “WHY?” is useless. Drop it. It asks the mind to explain life and whatever mind thinks at the moment is not truth. Mind can not wrap the whole in to a concept. It is part of the whole. It can not see the whole. Question “why?” only gets the mind twisted into a pretzel. So you get to experience a lot of tension for no good reason. Instead of why ask what?

What is here right now? What do I see here now? What is the lesson of this experience that is happening right now? This question is going to lead you to this moment and here you can look, rather than think.

So the mind keeps creating the self. Sure thing. And it will continue so. Just because. The idea is not to stop the mind from doing what it does but to see what it does as it does, and be aware of the emptiness of this “self”.

You are looking for the shift in experience. Drop that. Nothing changes in experience. This struggle is going nowhere. Waiting for the shift, wanting this to be different is coming from believing that you can do something about the experience. But it’s like weather, experience is here, and it’s not listening to what you want it to be.

We are here exploring what is, not trying to change what is. Not looking for a better experience. The hope for better experience is what is keeping this search going. When the right direction is to see what is as it is and be ok with that. Full surrender.

And surrender happens when resistance ends. Resistance to what is. The fight with what is has to end. Do you want to keep the struggle going? If not, then what is in the way of ending the seeking?

Love

[MeFree]

Hello Ilona

This last post really hit home. You really hit the nail on the head as the saying goes. Yes, have been looking for a better experience all along, that's true. It's a big motivator! I don't know how to stop it and I don't want to get into fighting it. Will try to shift focus to just seeing what is here now but I also don't want to enter into struggling against wanting a better experience.

In self inquiry question “WHY?” is useless. Drop it. It asks the mind to explain life and whatever mind thinks at the moment is not truth. Mind can not wrap the whole in to a concept. It is part of the whole. It can not see the whole. Question “why?” only gets the mind twisted into a pretzel. So you get to experience a lot of tension for no good reason. Instead of why ask what?

Well I certainly don't need to be adding more tension. Will try to stick with "what" although there is still a strong urge to know why things are the way they are.

What is here right now? What do I see here now? What is the lesson of this experience that is happening right now? This question is going to lead you to this moment and here you can look, rather than think.

Don't find any lesson of this present experience. Can't see any lesson most of the time. Things just happen and I either like them or dislike them.

So the mind keeps creating the self. Sure thing. And it will continue so. Just because. The idea is not to stop the mind from doing what it does but to see what it does as it does, and be aware of the emptiness of this “self”.

Difficult to just see what mind is doing without wanting to change it in some way. But yes, I suppose pure observation is the way to go. Watch the mind doing it's thing without interfering. Just see what is happening.

You are looking for the shift in experience. Drop that. Nothing changes in experience. This struggle is going nowhere. Waiting for the shift, wanting this to be different is coming from believing that you can do something about the experience. But it’s like weather, experience is here, and it’s not listening to what you want it to be.

Yes, it's like the weather, wanting it to different does nothing but create struggle. I can see that. I just don't know how to stop wanting a better experience. I can see that it is a trap or obstacle but it just goes on and on.

We are here exploring what is, not trying to change what is. Not looking for a better experience. The hope for better experience is what is keeping this search going. When the right direction is to see what is as it is and be ok with that. Full surrender.

Yes true, am looking for a better experience. The thing is that when I look for truth the experience usually IS better!

And surrender happens when resistance ends. Resistance to what is. The fight with what is has to end. Do you want to keep the struggle going? If not, then what is in the way of ending the seeking?

I do want to end the struggle. Although it does seem that the struggle gives my life meaning, in some way. But do want to end the fighting! Want to be friends with life, not enemies! Don't know what is in the way at this point. Don't know the current resistance.

Maybe not knowing what to do if I give up the struggle? How to fill the time? How to be socially? What to do in life? This is all conjecture. Really don't know what is in the way.

Lately the inner voice has been reminding me "can you just allow this to be here without fighting it?". The inner voice has taken on that particular guidance from you. Which often results in sadness and tears. Feelings of grief, loneliness longing.

Ok that's where I'm at right now.
Thank you!

[Ilona]

Thank you, dear friend. This is great

Lately the inner voice has been reminding me "can you just allow this to be here without fighting it?". The inner voice has taken on that particular guidance from you. Which often results in sadness and tears. Feelings of grief, loneliness longing.

When the inner voice says that, agree with it. Agree that it’s what you want, to let everything be as it is. And stay in that moment allowing all to just be as it is, as it wants. You can welcome grief, loneliness, longing and allow them to express fully. Meet them and that way can can be heard, can be held and relax.

The thing is that when I look for truth the experience usually IS better!

Yes, you see this right.

https://youtu.be/M59Ghw2mdK8 This may help too. There are questions in this video that you can work with.

Love.

[MeFree]

Hi Ilona

The illusion of self has been seen through in the past few days. The I-me-self is completely imaginary. Always was. Always is. No owner of the body, no owner of experiences. No inner entity riding around inside the body. Nothing like that at all. A make believe thing the mind created.

Initially there was a lot of laughing and freedom. But as the seeing persisted the mind started to get anxious. The mind had a big hole in it where the I-me-self used to be. Mind kept looking for the missing self in a nervous way. Over time mind re-created a self but it's sort of a patchwork. Identifications keep shifting. "I" seem to be here but when looking happens, no me to be found. Feels very squirrelly, slippery, un-graspable.

Body is not "me", nor is it "mine". Body feels sensations, not "me". Then suddenly there is a sense of a me feeling sensations again. Memories are here and mean nothing about "me", they aren't "mine". And then they are mine. Yes and no.

Right now there seems once again to be some sort of vague self that is feeling disappointed by life and by this recent realization. Some inner child voice saying "when do I get what I want?"

Seeing through the illusion of self is definitely not as expected. Definitely not the same as getting the experience that is wanted. They are really independent of each other. There is massive disappointment. Trying to allow the feeling of disappointment and not fight it. But really don't like it.

For this individuated being the seeking has always been seeking fearlessness. Seeing through the illusion of seperete self is not the same as that at all. Of course that is obvious now. Self or no self, the seeking for fearlessness will no doubt continue.

Seems there is still resistance of some sort. The anxious mind, looking for the "me". The "me" was illusion all along but the mind still expects to be with a "me". Am now in some sort of in-between limbo land.....

As I write this there is a vague sense of a vague "me" here doing this but it's even more vague than usual. There is a very thin sense of self but that could be the mind trying to not freak out about the "missing self". It's really the mind that's fearful right now, trying to hold it together, so to speak. Trying to re-establish the status quo of I-me-self. Apparently there is still more work to do...

Ok that's plenty of writing for now!
Thank you!

[Ilona]

Wow.
I hear you.
Yes, there can be a massive disappointment as it’s not what was expected. It’s ok, this will pass. Allow all to be as it is. It’s all part of your process. Trust that all is as it should be and continue to keep attention on what is here.

This is a beginning. And yes there is more work to do, unlearn, undo, relax deeper. This initial seeing opened up a new perspective and it takes time to settle in. Take it easy, soften. May all that is no longer needed fall away.

What has changed in normal everyday life? What do you notice, see differently?
Write more.

Love.

[MeFree]

Hi Ilona

(Wrote this last night. It's fairly long and stream of consciousness but I think it will give you a better picture of what's going on. Thank you!)

Have been very depressed the past couple of days. Feeling like the walking dead. Emotional zombie. The body is holding a lot of tension. Whole body is clenching, jaw, psoas, hips, whole body tension. Exhausted. In any case, a lot is going on as far as this project we are working on here.

What has changed in normal everyday life? What do you notice, see differently?
Write more.

Moments of insight and clarity. Self I me, it's all imagination of the mind. All that is here is body and mind, which are inseparable aspects of the unit.

Identification = imagination
How can one thing be something else? It can't! To say "I am smart" would mean that "I" am actually something else, "smart".

So before it was seen that the character of "me" is just that, a character that I have been playing my whole life, like the Batman example you use.

This time the seeing is that even the "I" who is playing the character is completely imaginary as well.

There is no I. There is no me. There is no ownership of experience. There is only body/mind experiencing. Just empty of self. So then laughing happens, words are spoken, bliss arises, but it's all happening in empty space. There is no one experiencing this. No I am laughing. No I am speaking. No I am in bliss.

The high fades. The mind starts thinking: "None of this is happening to *me*. It's just empty space. What good is it if empty space feels bliss? If there is no one feeling bliss, what is the point of bliss? I mean who cares? Anything at all could be arising and it's all empty space, so what's the point? No more me means no more suffering but it also means no more pleasure either! Hmmm ...." So that is mind talking.

Then mind starts to freak out a little bit, looking for the missing "me". Mind wants a "me" for some unknown purpose. Like mind can't grasp empty experiences. Mind wants solidity. Mind wants ownership.

So one day, maybe more, as just body/mind, no I-me-self. Then I-me-self gets recreated to calm down mind. Little by little ownerships are added. Maybe there is no owner of body, but now there is ownership of emotions. There is ownership of stories. There is ownership of doing. It builds up little by little.

Writing in notebook. Identification equals imagination. Other things. How self is a creation of mind. It's not "my" mind. No owner here, right now as this is being written.

There is not the feeling that "everything is just happening". There is a subtle sense of ownership of activities, such as this typing now. There is no "I am doing this" more like mind/body is doing this. There is a sense of doing, rather than pure flow, but unable to say who/what is doing it. It is being done, there is some small effort involved, it is not an effortless flow, it is not being done by "life" particularly.

So prior to the big event of recognition, there were a couple of blips that I wrote about before. Then I started watching your videos again and re-reading your book. You mentioned Ciaran Healy. I got curious, went online, started reading. What pushed me over the edge was reading something like "are those thoughts involving self actually coming from a self, or are they thoughts ABOUT a self?". Started pondering this and Boom!
Never saw that before, so obvious! All those thoughts that say "I am tired", or "I am sleepy" or whatever don't come *from* a self, they are ABOUT a self! An imaginary self! Crazy! Wow! It's like the mind creates this self thing in order to make sense of the world, but it's completely unnecessary! There may be feelings of tiredness, or sleepiness, but there is no "I" that is feeling them!

Ooohhh again, it's all just happening in empty space! How is this even possible! Tiredness arising in emptiness? Sleepiness arising in emptiness?

With no subject. There is no subject! How is this even possible?? THERE IS NO SUBJECT, FEELINGS ARE JUST ARISING IN EMPTY SPACE!!

And then suddenly there is a "me" here again, writing these words. Not a particularly solid "me", but a person, a subject, typing words. There is a "me" here having feelings...

It's all so shifty, so slippery!

So you asked me what has changed, what is different now. So hard to define, but I think that this post should give you some idea of what going on. The I-me-self fades in and out. Identifications and ownership occurs, then it doesn't. Then it does. As I go through my day I operate just as always. There is an I and I do things. I feel things. I make choices. But then when I really look it's like...very shifty! Feeling like some identifications have dropped away, but not all. When doing daily life there is the re-adopting if the I-me-self as well as the character that I play. It's not like the character has changed at all. The character is still the same old character, with all the same old patterns, the same old fears, the same old way of relating.

As writing this now, it's like the character continues to be played but there is no one playing the character. There is no ownership of playing the character. The character gets played by the body/mind, that's all. There is no "me" person who is playing the character. It is just being played. Can't even say that it's being played by "life". Again, in this very moment there is NO SUBJECT!!! And the mind gets weird about this! "Does not compute!"

Well ok this is a long post and I am getting sleepy now. In this moment there *is* an I self, who is getting sleepy.and wants to sleep. You see how it keeps shifting?? Fading in and out so rapidly!

Thank you!

PS. The mind getting all weird about the experience of no subject .... Curious. Maybe one of those "resistance" things. Need to get used to that somehow. Might help deepen the experience, calm down the shiftiness... Not sure exactly how to calm the mind, might take some getting used to. No doubt!

Ok that's it for now!
Thank you!!!

[Ilona]

Thank you for sharing your process, it gives me a clear idea where you are.
At this stage all is normal, all as it should be. The mind has already recognised the emptiness of I as an entity, so there is no what back. The rest will unfold in time.

It is good to remember, that this flipping in and out is normal, it has to play itself out and is already happening. You can pay attention to any and all thought that have a Should in them. Like this should not be happening, or it should be like this. All these ideas can go. Nothing should be different. Or can be different. It’s what is. And allow it all play out as it wants. Hands off. This will help.

I made another vide, which is driving the point home https://youtu.be/3mFsL9RvnS8


Body, mind, character, emotions, stories, identifying, seeing clearly, emptiness, bliss - all included in this dance we call life.

When you get a chance to look at empty space again, go deeper into experience, what else do you notice? What is the dimension of it, how big is it? How vast?

Love.

[MeFree]

Hi Ilona

(This post is kind of confused on my part. Keep trying to edit it into something coherent but maybe it was fine as it was.. Decided to post it anyway, maybe you might have some pointers)

At this stage all is normal, all as it should be. The mind has already recognised the emptiness of I as an entity, so there is no what back. The rest will unfold in time.

This is good to know! Thank you for the reassurance!

I made another vide, which is driving the point home https://youtu.be/3mFsL9RvnS8

Thank you Ilona! I'm glad that you have such clear understanding! The video was spot-on. I get it while you are speaking but then afterwards I'm like "what did she just say??"

Body, mind, character, emotions, stories, identifying, seeing clearly, emptiness, bliss - all included in this dance we call life.

Yes, definitely agreed

It is good to remember, that this flipping in and out is normal, it has to play itself out and is already happening. You can pay attention to any and all thought that have a Should in them. Like this should not be happening, or it should be like this. All these ideas can go. Nothing should be different. Or can be different. It’s what is. And allow it all play out as it wants. Hands off. This will help.

Am finding myself wanting to be in control of letting go of the controller. Ha! Doesn't work that way apparently!

Also noticing how the mind takes ownership of the "no owner" experience. " I saw that there is no I".

Good idea to be on the look out for "should" thoughts. Still a lot of those floating around.

When you get a chance to look at empty space again, go deeper into experience, what else do you notice? What is the dimension of it, how big is it? How vast?

No more experiences of emotions occuring in empty space. Today there is here an I-me-self that is the one doing things but it feels very fake at the same time. It's just this way right now. Am doing as much allowing as I can do, even if I'm not the one doing it!

Noticing that the mind was very quick to start drawing conclusions as soon as the self was seen through. Couldn't allow the experience to just be. Imagination activity began rapidly, imagining what life will now be like, what it all means, comparing the experience to expectations and desires. Along with the related emotional feelings.

Writing this now it looks like "the mind" has become the subject of activities. Instead of saying "I am doing X", now it is "The mind is doing X".

What if the "mind" is just as empty and illusionary as the "self"? What if there ARE NO Subjects? No using "mind" as subject, no using "life" as subject???

There never was this me character, a self, an I, a me. That is much clearer but now the "I" as subject has been replaced by mind, or body, or life. It was seen recently that there really is no subject whatsoever There was only confusion WITH NO SUBJECT, not even "empty space" to fill the subject spot in the sentence.

Am curious about this mind/body. What is this mind that is creating so much falsehood?

Have read in some Buddhist books about the empty nature of thoughts and emotions. How to see the empty nature of the mind? Or the empty nature of fear or anger? Now that would be very useful for this particular life form!! Any pointers on that?

Ok that's it for now. Feeling confused the past couple of days.

Thank you!!

[Ilona]

Thank you for sharing how you feel.
Let’s look closer at the mind. What is mind in experience? How does it work? Where is it?

Can you see that there are thoughts, they come up, one by one, one after another and that’s how a story/description shows up. One thought at a time. Is there mind that is thinking thoughts? Or “mind” is also a thought? Is mind the thinker?
Can a thought think?
Is mind a thing, an entity?

What do these words “my mind” refer to?

The buddhist idea of emptiness is that there is no form exists on its own by itself. And that all that you see comes from you. It’s too complex to explain this in this forum.

Here is an article for you. http://www.liberationunleashed.com/reso ... teachings/
And this http://www.liberationunleashed.com/reso ... -illusion/

In this forum we look at the emptiness of I. But it’s the same with everything else. Seeing emptiness of I is a beginning.

Love.

[MeFree]

Hi Ilona

Thank you!

Let’s look closer at the mind. What is mind in experience? How does it work? Where is it?

Looking at mind. Thoughts, memories, images, understandings, meanings, language, planning.... But no "mind" as a thing can be found. No location. Mind is just space where imaginary things show up. It's nowhere at all really but shows up in awareness as being here "inside" but even that isn't very accurate. It's not inside or outside. As to how it works? Nothing clear about that. Stuff just appears in the so called "mental space" and it's not even anything solid, but has the feeling of being solid. The thoughts/images seem very real in the moment they are appearing but then disappear again. There is something painful about the solidity of mental "objects". And there is a desire for them to be more spacious and less painful.

Can you see that there are thoughts, they come up, one by one, one after another and that’s how a story/description shows up. One thought at a time. Is there mind that is thinking thoughts? Or “mind” is also a thought? Is mind the thinker?
Can a thought think?
Is mind a thing, an entity?

Mind is also a thought! Mind thinks that it is the thinker! Mind believes it is an entity that is doing thoughts and everything else. This is a very strong belief. Mind is now the owner, the doer! Mind is the controller, the chooser. Mind is now the subject who is in charge.

There used to be an "I" entity but now the mind is saying that IT is the entity! Whaaat??

What do these words “my mind” refer to?

Well it's not really "mine", as I don't own it. Refers to "inner" conceptual processes that appear in awareness. Well, the "inner" isn't even needed. Conceptual processes appearing in individual awareness.

The buddhist idea of emptiness is that there is no form exists on its own by itself. And that all that you see comes from you. It’s too complex to explain this in this forum.

Yes there are so many books about this! I agree that it is too much for this forum. I don't need an explanation of the theory, was hoping for some guidance. Maybe am jumping ahead anyway, still need to really deepen what's going on with "I". Better to just keep focused on this for right now!

Here is an article for you. http://www.liberationunleashed.com/reso ... teachings/
And this http://www.liberationunleashed.com/reso ... -illusion/

Thanks for the links!

In this forum we look at the emptiness of I. But it’s the same with everything else. Seeing emptiness of I is a beginning.

Yes I understand that this forum is to look at the emptiness of I. It's great! I know that I was asking for more than that in my last post. This is plenty right here! Definitely want to stick with this process and deepen the experience as much as possible! The initial negative reactivity has passed and am noticing a lightness and freedom in the daily life. And a strong desire for more of that!! Let's continue to work on this!

Am filled with gratitude this morning!!!!! Thank you soooo much Ilona!!!!

[Ilona]

Wonderful. I’m so glad that initial resistance has dropped and we can continue looking and discovering a new way of seeing.
Here is a question for you.
Can a thought think?

Love.

[MeFree]

Hi Ilona

Can a thought think?

No a thought can not think. The thought is a creation, not the creator.

There are thoughts that say something about "I" and there are thoughts that say something about "mind". The thoughts say that they come from "me" or from "my mind" but where are they really coming from? They just appear out of nowhere! Hmmm...